logsplitter engine and pump?

[Old_School_Nut]

I kinda get what you are saying Harry, but, if I am thinking this through, they may have a pulley reduction system on it, that would increase the load as well. Without pics or a better description, it's kinda hard to know what really is going on!

a pulley can work 3 ways, reduce pump speed, increase it or keep it =.... we were talking about maybe reducing pump speed to a flow rating the engine would handle, so big pulley on pump and small one on engine.

if it were mine this is what I would do

to get usable hp:
14hp / 4= 3.5

14-3.5= 10.5
usable hp = 10.5

now I need to figure out how many gpm a 10.5 hp engine can pump with a one stage pump. and GUESS at my max PSI for the pump (good thing to find out) and Max RPM.

we are trying to find the largest pump so we assume the harshest conditions, 3,600 RPM and 3,000 PSI @ 85% efficiency.

lets try a pump with 5.1 gpm rating...

5.1 gpm x 3000 psi / 1714 x 85% = 10.50 so thats close enough i reakon...

so now you know, if its much over 5 gpm your engine is to small.

soo if you have a 30 GPM pump at 3,600 RPM you have some big pulleys to deal with (or a bunch of small ones on a bunch of shafts)

30 / 5= 6 sooo you need to reduce pump RPM to 1/6 of your engine and your engine will be happy. at least in this example.

don't trust my math, I might be a backyard engineer, but I flunked outa algebra! do it yourself

-Leo-

 

[sawinredneck]

The 14 hp motor runs very good. I have tried warming it up and then linking it to the pump. I get the same results. I do have a twin cylinder 28 hp Kohler motor that I may have to use if I cant get a belt drive system to work or a pull starter. I will post Pictures soon as I get a chance to take some. Seems funny that the pump has no markings on it at all.

Currently the motor is linked to the pump with a lovejoy connector.
The system has no gear reduction on it. all the specifics were posted earlier.

You are right, I missread the post, sorry about that. I meant no disrespect, just trying to put all of the pieces together and get this dude running for you.

I still think the pump is too large, it's increadable the amount of energy it takes to move fluid.
Also check the valve as Harry said, just take off the inlet and outlet lines and try and blow air through them, thats an easy test.

 

[58hydraglide]

I've read all of the posts harry and If I understand them right it sounds like you could possibly have a closed center control valve on the system. Especially if the rig hasn't run yet. Unless I misread your posts. Just tryin to help.

 

[58hydraglide]

I just read them again and i see where you said you connected inlet and outlet hose from spool valve together if it still wouldn,t turn free then it,s not the valve. I'm assumung when you did that it still would not spin free. Correct?

 

[kallaste]

I just read them again and i see where you said you connected inlet and outlet hose from spool valve together if it still wouldn,t turn free then it,s not the valve. I'm assumung when you did that it still would not spin free. Correct?

correct, I eliminated the spool valve and the engine still would not start.

 

[drmiller100]

check the obvious stuff.
battery.
terminals.


the engine doesn't crank over with the pump connected at all? or it won't fire???

you should be able to easily turn the pump by hand if it is disconnected.

 

[58hydraglide]

I just bought a homade logsplitter to fix up and sell. It has a good running cast iron Tecumpseh 14hp, a pump apx 7" accross (26 to 30 gal pm?) and a dozer cylinder.
Problem: The starter will start the motor but not when it is linked to the pump. I have tried a proven starter from my buddies motor and get the same results. it wont hardly turn over. If I remove the sparkplug it will turn over good. I have removed the spool valve to eliminate it as a possible blockage and went from the resivoir to the pump and back to the resivoir so no pressure could build. It still acts the same way. Do I need a pull start on this? Anyone have any ideas. I am really starting to get frustrated!!!:bang:

Harry I went over the threads again and i would have to agree with old school nut, if the pump and cyl. came off of a dozer it may have entirely too much volume even at starting rpms. Dollars to doughnuts that if the pump DID come off of a dozer it is also capable of feeding multiple cylinders at the same time. I would get the actual piston diameter specs from the cylinder and match up a pump based upon that and your engine size. Northern tool can help you figure what you need. That or find the dozer that they came off of and install the powerplant from it on the splitter!:biggrinbounce2: If you do that though you HAVE to post some pics of it!.

 

[CylinderService]

I once had a guy bring in a homemade splitter which had a large dump truck pump connected to a 5 Hp Briggs. (It didn't work.)
This one really reminds me of it. A nominal 20 GPM pump might be trying for 50 GPM when turned directly with a small gas engine.
If you can't find any numbers, & want to size it, take it apart and measure the gears. Then use this rough formula: (gear OD - center distance) x gear length x center dist. x 3.3 = cu in per revolution. Multiply by RPM (3000) and divide by 231 to get GPM. You're hoping for 5 - 10 GPM for a 14 Hp engine. Any more will require more Hp. (And 10 GPM is still too much unless you have a large diameter cylinder.)
If you can give us some pictures, we might be able to identify it even without numbers.
But if you just want to get splitting buy a 2-stage pump, which you'll probably end up doing anyway after you've satisfied all our curiosities.
Good Luck!

Don the Hydraulics Guy

 

[grandpatractor]

need pictures

I agree with most of the ideas. I'd like to see the pump. It could also be a closed center pump. These tend to crank real hard til the pressure gets built up and then they go easy. It might take only one or two revolutions or it could take more if there is oil leaking somewhere like using an open center valve.
I'd really like to know what the pump looks like:monkey:

 

[kallaste]

I once had a guy bring in a homemade splitter which had a large dump truck pump connected to a 5 Hp Briggs. (It didn't work.)
This one really reminds me of it. A nominal 20 GPM pump might be trying for 50 GPM when turned directly with a small gas engine.
If you can't find any numbers, & want to size it, take it apart and measure the gears. Then use this rough formula: (gear OD - center distance) x gear length x center dist. x 3.3 = cu in per revolution. Multiply by RPM (3000) and divide by 231 to get GPM. You're hoping for 5 - 10 GPM for a 14 Hp engine. Any more will require more Hp. (And 10 GPM is still too much unless you have a large diameter cylinder.)
If you can give us some pictures, we might be able to identify it even without numbers.
But if you just want to get splitting buy a 2-stage pump, which you'll probably end up doing anyway after you've satisfied all our curiosities.
Good Luck!

Don the Hydraulics Guy

I believe you guys are correct about the pump. I connected it to my wheelhorse tractor using a belt. I was able to turn it apx 2-300 rpm with the spool valve in neutral, when I moved the spoolvalve the belt would slip bad. I tried turning it clockwise and counterclockwise. I think this pump would work if someone had a very large drive motor. I think I will purchase a 16gpm 2 stage pump and get on with it. A 14 hp motor should be enough to run this pump shouldnt it?

Thanks Steve.

 

[ray benson]

The 16gpm 2 stage pump recommended motor is at least 8 hp.
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2007032614473645&item=9-1390&catname=hydraulic

 

[Old_School_Nut]

plug it into the formula i posted in post 20...

 

[triptester]

If you have a 14 hp. motor I found a 22 gpm 2-stage pump on ebay at a good price here is the link.


ebay.com item # 330109175817