Long Lanyards ?

[rahtreelimbs]

I have seen guys climb like BigJohn describes: It boggles my mind how people climb so effortlessly with minmal use of safety equipment. I guess it boils down to what works for you and how confident you are. I don't know that I will ever reach that level of confidence. But I will give it my best shot and have a heck of a good time trying. As for now I go I will stick to lanyard use. I will explore the the long lanyard.

 

[mikecross23]

Confidence could be the death of me. I'll deflate my head think straight and stay double tied when necessary.

 

[BigJohn]

Maybe you can use that spare biner to tie a munter next time and come down on that when chunking down that spar if your using a tag line to pull them over.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Very good Mike stay working FailSafe, 2 connections. i bring 3 (LifeLine redirct/short support) just in case myself.

"You are going to war, ....always have a backup; ....2 is 1, and1 is none" Screaming DI to troops in GI Jane.

Practice and maintain the action of needed gear deployment till it is nothing to do; if it takes so much time to swing lanyard around someting and click it in home; maybe you haven't done it enough to make it that shmooth i would always tell myself. Get somnething down like that that you can fire pre-loaded like a gun slinger.


Without voiding my lifeline's capaccity, readiness to catch me soon, i will use a rigging line for posstioning ease and speed. In a pulley, going to a rigging point. Set rig in upside down U, you can set lifeline in a 3rd zone. Work 1 zone, have 1 end of rig pull you to next, then let uther end of "U" rig pull/help to other side, and finally swing to under lifeline pivot and work that zone, or something like that! Look around use anything of power you can, just keep the safetey on i think. Just because we never use rigging gear for safety, i don't rule it out for making things easieer and safer, by stacking it on top of the safety procdeure. Sometimes that is even ussing a rigging loop runner for more stability, when still using lifeline.

Using this, i might mini notch the upward corner on baackside of to-be blocked, drape rigging line over to front, clove on back, place travel in mini-knotch on to corner edge of chunk. Then when lifelined to spaar low, i can use this (muenter in like BigJohn) for sawing the face comfortaably, then disconnect and guys have pull line.

Even if that load is leaning or whatever, past determining direction, any extra force will either make the chunk move faster (more force) or make it flex more hinge (less force), by bending with more fibre holding in hinge, depending on how much BackCut. i think a cut slowly giving to pulling pressure on hinge is best to deliver with most guidance and lowest force riding on hinge, wether felling, chunking, rigging sideways, rig pulling up etc. Using the hinge longer and stronger graants more control over ddirection and force. For least shock i think the load shoud ride the hinge as long as possible, with as much hinge. Placing the line over the top puts it in aboulutely the best location for leverage on the hinge to affect this, by challenging it more, to make it stronger in response. The diffrence of a load seperating at 1:30 or 4o'clock from the hinge can be immense. Also any force on hinge is 1xForce on spar, force on pulley support line is 2x at same point on spar!

The AM sponsor's technique about using the lifeline as support to more comfy service face, precuts in a SRT (though you can't set rigging's lacing cuz LifeLine goes under it)with bowline choked around spar and then pull bowline open remotely and let lifeline slide down on below facing where it goes anyway is pretty slick. But, you can't preset the lacing with it (cuz LifeLine goes under it, and there isn't a pull ine left for aiding in rotating the chock as far as possible on the hinge to reduce ShockLoading to the rigging system.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Originally posted by TheTreeSpyder
Does anyone else 'Koala Bear' from under a limb to clean the outreaches,

With me it is more like a sloth...

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Originally posted by treeclimber165

A 30' lanyard (should be called a second lifeline) is very helpful for people with more knowledge than natural ability. If you are unable to climb out that limb without it, by all means use it. I'll be waiting on the tips.

Well a flipline is a safety so if it is 5 or 50 feet it is a life line of sorts. I do refer to it as a secondary TIP.

I don't understand why people need to take differenaces in style as personal attacks????

IMO the longer flipline gives me a better mobility in bigger trees. Why would I want to pull arounf a double end to just move around a few more feet.

with a 5ft lanyard I need to reclip to move much, with a 30 ft I can move around 14 ft away from the connection point.

BTW Brian I got bot the smarts and the ability, and I'll outclimb your scrawny tail any day it is under 70*

 

[treeclimber165]

Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn
BTW Brian I got bot the smarts and the ability, and I'll outclimb your scrawny tail any day it is under 70*

Yer on, big guy! How's Baltimore in November sound? Now I got TWO dance dates for the Expo! {smoooooch!}

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn

I don't understand why people need to take differenaces in style as personal attacks????

That's simple. The ego of the climber is so huge, to even suggest there might be a different way, is a direct insult. Every climber I have ever met is the best climber in the world, until he climbs with someone better, then he's second best until the better climber can't hear him any more, then he's best again.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Originally posted by TreeCo

I resent the fact that Mike is trying to turn the long lanyard or no long lanyard into a black and white issue. I'm sure we all double crotch at times........and that's the same thing as using a second long lanyard. Using a second long lanyard doesn't make you a better climber or even a safer climber. I don't carry a second long lanyard because I carry enough gear already.......and the tail of my rope is always handy. I carry a spare biner and nothing else for double crotching.

Be safe fellows,

Dan
Atlanta

I'll say it again, I don't think a long lanyard makes you better or safer. Where did I turn it into a black and white issue?

I am not suggesting carrying two lanyards, just a longer one for wide trees.

Why do some climbers FREAK OUT about having gear on there belt that they might not use? Dan carries a spare carabinner and nothing else, like a tres cord and pulley would slow him down. And with those two tools he could do a much more efficient set up. I would also get rid of the micro acsender and replace it with a tres cord, but that's another thread.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i saw one climber around here.......

His ego was soooooooooooooooooooo Large;

The Postal inspector,

Gave the Climber's ego,

It's own ZipCode!



i can learn from anyone, even if jsut re-enforcing what i know to do, or not to do;

Let alone a new outlook or technique, or some beautifully, deceptively simple alteration, polishing or alignmeant to further evolve something.

One time i had a climber that was already tops when i was crawling up; that had straightened me out when i was around him some, ("here your gonna hurt yourself like that, do it like this") Blow me away all day (well.......almost.......), Long legged MF'r 2 steps and 50' up the tree , kinda tick ya off! i can't do that, i stand up and my legs just barely touch the ground, and don't go that high either! He did some standardized kidding 'round these parts about stuff on my belt, ya know the Ace HardWare comments........

About the last 2-21/2 hrs., everything was clear for paths etc.; on my main project, lines left here and there, som in oter trees i had serviced. And after some rigging, body swinging etc. He came flying down from his tree as i desceneded; hand out shaking mine, and his head. Said some nice things, he was around when i started; i had been showing him new toys, knots, making lanyards and tails in balanced return for a while by then. Lots of stuff in large units came down butterfly light to open zones it is fair to say.

Climbing to a point ain't all of it; there is a lil'hinging, rigging and assembling it all 4 chess moves ahead with smooth transitions sometimes.

Like what you can do with 15 extra minutes with a few throw lines on the ground while another climber is already in the air kinda laughing at you. It can come out OK every once in a while.............

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Well before i was trying to say that,

Any force can only exert as much,
positive or negative energy,
on something else,
as is resisted or taken on.

"The Tao of Physics" F. Capra

Proved it with my lady too......

And if my buddy and i do another job together sometime; i imagine we will do the same as the last time. Share the work, knowledge and passion; in each other's strengths and knock the chit out betwixt us the best way wee can.

:alien:

 

[Herkfe]

As longs as we are talking about lanyards....

With all this great dialouge about lanyards and different methods of tying infor spar removals, etc. I would like to know if anyone out there is using the "Friction Saver Prusik".

Seems like an interesting concept, although I must admit I'm not 100% sure exactly how it functions if a spar were to split. I do like the idea because of the stiffness of the FS for flipping.

Thanks!

Pete

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Originally posted by Mike Maas
That's simple. The ego of the climber is so huge, to even suggest there might be a different way, is a direct insult.

All I've ever said about myself is that I'm above average. Oh .... and better the Brian

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Re: As longs as we are talking about lanyards....

Originally posted by Herkfe
With all this great dialouge about lanyards and different methods of tying infor spar removals, etc. I would like to know if anyone out there is using the "Friction Saver Prusik".

Seems like an interesting concept, although I must admit I'm not 100% sure exactly how it functions if a spar were to split. I do like the idea because of the stiffness of the FS for flipping.

Thanks!

Pete

With this setup, your attached more like the oldschool method, so that the D's of your saddle wont spread apart. You stay attached to the spar, like a bug on a log, but the pressuer is on the climbing rig only, not you and the saddle.

 

[Herkfe]

The lightbulb just went on!

Thanks John, I was just looking again at the picture of the FSP and finally the light went on in my brain.

I kind of like the safety aspect of it but I was wondering about the prusik action on the FS too until I compared my older BH to a newer one. The newer ones are not as wide but thicker. More square construction should allow decent prusik grip. And I love the flourescent orange color on the large ring side. It's the little things that make a big diffeence.

If anyone is using one....please give us your impressions!

Pete

 

[treeclimber165]

Originally posted by Mike Maas
I can't imagine climbing with a short lanyard, it would totally limit the maneuvers a guy can use in the tree.
There seem to be two camps with different climbing styles, one who leave the lanyard clipped to the side and basicly only use it as a safety or spiking up a spar. These guys will use short, thick, three strand or wire core lanyards with steel clips. To picture their style think of climbing a pine, hang only off the climbing line, and use the lanyard only when the boss is looking as a saftey.
Then there is the second camp, they keep a long lanyard attached in the front or design it so it can be moved there easily. When they climb, use the lanyard as a double crotch, often advancing it out in the direction the climber needs to travel, like to the end of a long horizontal branch, to the tree just 10 feet away, or up to a limb which is not in line with his climbing rope. This style climber works trees that are often wider than tall.

Mike- The above quote is what irritated me. If you read it again you might be able to see where someone wouild take it as an insult. To insinuate that I only lanyard in when the boss is looking or when gaffing up a spar is insulting. To insinuate that I am not qualified to climb trees that are wider than tall is insulting. The entire post is insulting.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Brian, I'm sorry you are insulted. I should have left out the part about the boss looking.
My point was this: one style of climber doesn't double crotch off his lanyard, the other does. Now, keep in mind, I'm not talking about a certain percentage of the time, I'm mean in general.
I am trying to discribe different styles of climbing. I have seen a lot of guys climb, there really are two common styles, I 'm not saying one is better.
The crack about the boss looking was to get across the idea that the lanyard is not often used to aid in moving around or positioning, but more of a saftey requirment, in this style of climbing. I mentioned a pine tree to reflect a tree that is tall and thin so your TIP is directly above your head. In this type of tree you would not use a long lanyard.
If how I discribed this first type of climber is not like you, then don't take it personally, it discribes many climbers I have seen working. They tend to use a free climbing style to move around, almost never having their ropes tight, just there in case of a fall, or perhaps the climbing line is used when decsending or limb walking, and rarely if ever double crotching.
I have seen guys who climb and trim out a tree and their lanyard never gets used once. I didn't mean the boss looking thing to be a *** at you or anyone specific, just a realistic veiw of many climbers I have watched.

 

[mikecross23]

I try to take Mike's posts as smart @ss sarcastic humor, kind of like you would kid around w/ a buddy. Doesn't bother me any.

-Mike-

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

smart @ss sarcastic humor, kind of like you would kid around w/ a buddy.

One of the problems with this form of communication is that we have no visual signals to let the recipient know that there is a bit of humor involved.

Facial expressions and body language play such a large part in spoken conversation.

When we convert our speeking style into the writen form we risk gross misunderstanding if a little more thought is not put into it.

(One of the things I find entertaining is that some of the people most easily offended are ones most likely to offend.)

Another aspect of this is where my problems with grammer and syntax make me look like an baject idiot to those who first read my postings. But then I never worry about such things :jester:

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

As well ya shouldn't;
especcially as your most charming point!


Sar-chasm?

What is that?

A trap you fall into when not looking all around?

Would not considering all options,
looking at all faces,
be an exercise in powerful rigging/climbing?

To honestly, deeply look at something;
and realize what actually stands against you,
and that which helps.

........Or SomeThing like that!

:alien: