Lots of questions about footlocking

[basnighttrees]

You said you ascend with dual ascenders, right?

I'd like to see how you have your ascenders rigged. Any way you can kick us down a photo?

Yes I can get a picture after I get my camera back from my dad. I left it in his truck the last time we went turkey hunting. In the mean time, I have a 8mm rope tied with a double fisherman knot. I take the loop of rope and girth hitch it to the ascenders and the other end to a biner. Clip the biner to my saddle and go. Actully the double accenders is really two right hand accenders taped together. I got them half price. I have used it once and the tape did not hold. The next time I use them I will tie a 4 to 6 loop Klemheist. This should hold to two handles together.

 

[Tree Machine]

I would like you to tie a second 8 mm with a double fisherman's knot of the same length and apply it next to the one you've got. You'll clip your biner through both of them. You will feel more secure than just with the one and for mere pennies.

We need to figure out how to make your duals so they're not floppy. The beauty of ascenders is the absolute 100% control they give you on the ascent up the rope, so we want them performing 100%. If the setup looks shoddy, we're going to tell you about it, not to degrade your system, but of pure concern for your safety and performance. We're just lookin out for you.

 

[basnighttrees]

Cool, I will get my camera this week.

 

[basnighttrees]

Sorry it take soo long. Here are the pics.
http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23416&stc=1
This is a pic of the boots I am usinghttp://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23417&stc=1
The high arch does make me slip some. I just need to use my toe.

 

[basnighttrees]

The advise about making the length of the adsenders about where your eyebrows are was the best. I was able to rest without having to pull myself up again. I could just rock back and look at my feet to get a good lock. I was not so tire by the time I got in the tree.

 

[Tree Machine]

Ascenders are nice that way, allowing you to put your full weight on them between locks, stop, rest, advance, inch your way past obstacles. Go slow, go fast, go whatever you feel. They're very user-friendly.

Most curious rigging of your Dual right-handed Petzls. I'm not sure anyone here has ever seen such a setup, nor has Petzl. Hey, innovation is celebrated, as long as it's safe and secure.

You'll have to tell us how they perform. With the rope faces opposing each other (one side viewable, the other not), I could only guess on how it would feel. Tell us more.

Interesting, Chris.

Interesting.

 

[basnighttrees]

They feel fine to me. It is the only thing I have ever used. The rope moves well through the adcenders. The knot holds the two handles together fine.

 

[Tree Machine]

Have you used them on single rope yet? Do you use ascend using one hand on the handle, one on the rope, or do you hold both handles?

 

[basnighttrees]

I have used them on DRT. I have never climbed on SRT.

 

[Tree Machine]

SRT is wonderful. A lot of guys avoid SRT because using a hitch to ascend a single rope is a real bite in the arse. With ascenders, it's identical to ascending a dual rope, only with half as many ropes .

Ascenders make using the new-breed 11 mm lines easy and breezy.

 

[Chuck R]

Anything wrong doing it this way?

Climb with a split-tail and use a single Petzl ascender connected to footstraps. Maybe this is common but haven't seen it discussed. Seems like a reasonable arrangement for new climbers that are not so good at foot locking (like my wife).

 

[Tree Machine]

Hi Chuck, Welcome to the Forum, glad to have you here.

Footstraps are very common in one of my two climbing worlds (caving) but I know of no one, personally, in the tree climbing arena that uses them. I think the reason is that you have to carry them around in the tree clipped to you, or throw them to the ground once you get up there and then not have them if you need them again.

The length of webbing from the ascender to the footstrap, and the footstrap itself would add a fair degree of bulk if you were to schlepp it all around the tree, especially if you're packing a rack of slings and biners for rigging purposes, and a Silky or two, and a chainsaw. Guys who want this sort of aid generally use a foot ascender called a Pantin.

Pantin or footstrap, even though it may make the ascent easier, still adds extra gear, and added complexity. Remember, the ascent is only a small fraction of most any given climb. Most of the climbing in a tree is climbing the tree, not climbing the rope.

The beauty of ascenders linked to your frontware is simplicity and minimalism. Footlocking and ascender(s) is a system boiled down to the least common denominator. Learning to use an ascender is, well, let's say there's a very, very short learning curve, which means almost all the skill is in learning the footlock. The footlock, as a technique, is very straight-forward; rope over one foot, under the other. That's all there is, really.

It doesn't take a special athlete to do a proper footlock, nor does it require some innate skill that some have and some don't. No special gear is required. If you are having problems learning the footlock, it probably is not you; it is likely your footwear. I honestly believe ANYONE can learn to footlock well, but footlocking with improper footwear is akin to eating soup with a knife.

Attached is Elizabeth's rig (partial). Very effective for anyone who doesn't climb regularly. It's a two-foot footloop.

I will do anything I can for any one of you to help you get comfortable footlocking.

Much of the hurdle, early on, may be mental. Maybe it's the way you've got your setup rigged. Partly, it could be your climbing boots. Let's troubleshoot, source where the problems lie, and get you comfortable doing this. Once you get it, it's like a young bird learning to fly. Soon it becomes second nature.

 

[Chuck R]

TMachine

Thanks, Mr. T Machine for your reply and the forum welcome. This place is great.
I've been foot locking since I was a kid. My dad hung a rope in our garage and I had my fort up there. I don't think I have the right footwear going for me at this time, however. I kinda snagged my new line on those stupid speed lace gromments. So I won't use those boots again. I'm looking for a way, like shown in your picture, for my wife to climb on a split-tail system. I haven't tried a pantin yet but I do have the Petzl handled ascender with foot loops. Makes sense what you're saying about hassling with that stuff when you're working up there. I wanted something relatively "safe" and easy for her. Both DdRT and SRT. Since I'm new to this I'm reading everything I can right now and havin a ball.
By the way, I had the privilege last weekend of watching the pro's (I'm not) at the MN ISA tree climbing competition. That was more fun than I've had in a few years. Saw some of the best and a few who, as their mates chided, "had spent a little too much time in the bucket".
I know this is a professional forum so I won't clutter it up too much. I discovered my interest in this profession a little late in the game. I'm 49. But I have lots of trees, a love of knots, a fear of heights, and a Husky 338XPT. Wish me luck.

 

[Lumberjack]

Welcome to AS!

As to a professional forum.. eh, we might get a little lax in here.

I use the pantin on almost every climb, I can FL (albiet not well, way outta practice), but I choose to wear the pantin. There has been problems with joints from prolong FLing.

Oh, and your the same age as the Blaster, who climbs most every day as a contract climber. You are only as old as you think you are

 

[jamie]

You are only as old as you think you are

or as a mate says:

the woman you feel.....

jamie :evil

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Chuck,

Since you were at the MnTCC you got to see one of the finest all around arborists that I know. Gary Albig is the Jedi Master of Arborculture in Minnesota. He's one of my mentors and is on my Mt. Arbo-more

Did you compete or spectate? A really good way to learn more about climbing is to get involved at the TCC and judge or tech. Let George or Lynn know and they'll have you on the list for next year.

 

[Jim1NZ]

If you are having problems learning the footlock, it probably is not you; it is likely your footwear. I honestly believe ANYONE can learn to footlock well, but footlocking with improper footwear is akin to eating soup with a knife..

Never ever blame not being able to footlock on your boots! Whos ever read Lance Armstrongs book "Its not about the bike"? Well in this case its not about the boots.

Main thing with footlocking is technique, then practice.

Its possible to footlock with no boots, give learning the technique a real go before blaming the boots!

 

[Tree Machine]

True, Mate. I'm just presenting the kinder, gentler version of that.

I'll meet ya half way, Kiwi. I wholly agree. Anyone who can footlock, can footlock barefoot. But only for so long.

Still better would be sneakers, but then ya gotta climb in them. Anyone who can climb can climb in sneakers, but they impose limitations on how extreme you can be and how long before your feet hurt.

To explore the outer limits of climbing deserves the very best boot available to you. They will allow you to footlock at least as well as with the sneakers, mebbe better. But the most important thing to remember is the majority of the time, where you have your feet in contact with tree, that's where you should be gauging the performance of your footwear.

If they climb exceptionally awesome, it's pretty much a given that they'll footlock with authority.

 

[Tree Machine]

We love noobs, even if they're old farts

I know this is a professional forum so I won't clutter it up too much.
Wish me luck.

Don't worry your self on the clutter. It's questions and input like yours that are the lifesource of information being shared. Consider yourself an ambassador of knowledge perpetuation.



p.s. Good luck.

 

[Jim1NZ]

Yep, cant say i tried sneakers but specialist boots do make our job a bit easier especially when moving through the crown, limb walks etc