VikingDrive
ArboristSite Operative
And how about M-Tronic climbing saw. Can do without adding much weight? I'd like it. Trade you fuel purge bulb for that.
I'm not a tuner, I just want the darn thing to run ... when I want it and get the job done as quickly as possible.
When I buy something, the first thing I look at is reliability. Next is power and price is a distant third. A good tool will pay the difference in price with longevity and reliability.
I still have tools that I bought in my teens that work as well thirty-seven years later as the day I bought them. Case in point are my Milwaukee Magnum tools with the removable cords. I beat the crap out of those tools, mixing grout, drywall mud, 2inch spade bits and they will still try to break your wrist if you are not paying attention. My black and decker bulldawg electric impact wrench is another one that still keeps pounding away.
I don't think the made in china crap they sell today can last and take the abuse. It's cheaper to replace the tools than buy the replacement batteries ... If you can still get them.
Stihl and the pro-grade Husky's i've used are like that. You got to maintain them, they reward you back with service.
OTOH, I have bought expensive tools that were pure crap.
LOL - it's 15 years old! I had to have the transmission rebuilt on my F250 last year - pissed me off but after 18 years and 160,000 miles I figure it didn't owe anything.I just replaced all 8 of my coil-on-plug units and spark plugs on my '97 5.8l Tritan V8 and the DPFE sensor as well. Give me the straight six with all the emissions crap tore off and a carter carb on it every day over the new fuel injected stuff. The performance isn't enough different for me to make it worthwhile. A whole new carb is like $150 and 10 minutes for a Ford V-8, what does a whole new emissions set-up run you in cost and time?
When considering the "I just want to run it and not have to worry" you have to consider both sides of that, when it work right and when it doesn't. Downtime of new stuff is hell compared to the old technology! And the expense of repairs is horrendous too.
How many threads are there of folks tearing into their saws and re-jetting or porting or muffler modding etc...? How many would there be if our saws were all computer controlled? My guess is far less since you can only get away with so much that the computer is going to accept away from what it expects to see, by way of mods.
Limiters are fine if adjustable or removable and on low grade disposable saws I suppose full computer control would be fine, but on professional saws it would just add unnecessary expense and headache and kill what many of us love about our saws.
I recently got rid of a Bronco I loved. It was perfect and rust free, but we moved remote and couldn't keep it. I got it for a song because it had a small carb fire that burned through the wiring harness and the owner couldn't afford nor perform the replacement. It was a California emissions vehicle and it was rank. I saw it for what it was though and stripped away piles of smog pump, computer, TFI ignition, EGR, A/C that didn't work etc... until you could smuggle quite a few border crossers under the hood if you wanted to. Point being it was only the tech that kept the previous owner from being able to fix it. Had he had it like I sold it, that would have been different and I wouldn't have had my little mule.
Add to that the 2003 Johnson 2-stroke outboard I just sold (attached to a boat) that was in high demand since two strokes are out of production here. Everybody wanted that engine. I don't wonder why (although that is a somewhat separate issue).
I just replaced all 8 of my coil-on-plug units and spark plugs on my '97 5.8l Tritan V8 and the DPFE sensor as well. Give me the straight six with all the emissions crap tore off and a carter carb on it every day over the new fuel injected stuff. The performance isn't enough different for me to make it worthwhile. A whole new carb is like $150 and 10 minutes for a Ford V-8, what does a whole new emissions set-up run you in cost and time?
When considering the "I just want to run it and not have to worry" you have to consider both sides of that, when it work right and when it doesn't. Downtime of new stuff is hell compared to the old technology! And the expense of repairs is horrendous too.
How many threads are there of folks tearing into their saws and re-jetting or porting or muffler modding etc...? How many would there be if our saws were all computer controlled? My guess is far less since you can only get away with so much that the computer is going to accept away from what it expects to see, by way of mods.
Limiters are fine if adjustable or removable and on low grade disposable saws I suppose full computer control would be fine, but on professional saws it would just add unnecessary expense and headache and kill what many of us love about our saws.
I recently got rid of a Bronco I loved. It was perfect and rust free, but we moved remote and couldn't keep it. I got it for a song because it had a small carb fire that burned through the wiring harness and the owner couldn't afford nor perform the replacement. It was a California emissions vehicle and it was rank. I saw it for what it was though and stripped away piles of smog pump, computer, TFI ignition, EGR, A/C that didn't work etc... until you could smuggle quite a few border crossers under the hood if you wanted to. Point being it was only the tech that kept the previous owner from being able to fix it. Had he had it like I sold it, that would have been different and I wouldn't have had my little mule.
Add to that the 2003 Johnson 2-stroke outboard I just sold (attached to a boat) that was in high demand since two strokes are out of production here. Everybody wanted that engine. I don't wonder why (although that is a somewhat separate issue).
I know this thread probably chaps a lot of folks hind ends, and thats not really my intentions. Im just looking at it without blinders on. If im wrong, somebody show me the error of my ways.
Why aren't you at work?
Don't TELL me they gave you a night off!!!:msp_tongue:
Mike
Why aren't you at work?
Don't TELL me they gave you a night off!!!:msp_tongue:
Mike
We all know how hard Wiggz works!
I figured I'd quote muh self from the beginning. It really isn't my intentions to piss anybody off.
From those of you who have em, you seem to love em. In fact, y'all are quite passionate about it. That's great. I hope they give you years of trouble free service.
But I got a couple questions for my fellow modders. As in, you do your own port work/saw modification. You know, us one percenters.
Does the autotune/M-Tronic make the saw more powerful like Stihl and Husky claim? Do you believe that the auto systems give you maximum power in every RPM range, at every given moment?
I despise the 441 saws. The 576 to me aint much better. They're both heavy, awkard, and in my eyes, offer nothing that the previous generation of saws didnt do fantastically.
I "personally" have not ran one. I "personally" know several folks, who I take their word as the truth, who say they are absolutley nothing to write home about. They say the 441 hunts and "changes gears" and really offers no performance over the base model. I've heard that the 576 is much better, but still nothing worth writing home about.
How far is fuel injection away as far as time?
IMO disagree with what you have said,i have put a lot of hrs on stock,muff modded and ported 441Cs and will not go back to an old type saw.The wrap model 441C is better in every way than a 460.If you use a saw ever day then ya cant go wrong with one or two.
Better
Filter system
Less fuel and fumes
Heaps better AV
Easy start system
No tune
Responds well to modds
In my limited experience I would say yes, the systems seemed to work well, just like I said about strato saws 5 years ago.:msp_wink:
Sorry but you guys that like carb's need to move back in time 100 years or so. I'll stay here with electricity, AC, internet and cars that start in the winter without pumping 100 times. You're right carb's are better everyone else in the modern world is wrong and evil with all this electrickery.otstir:otstir::msp_tongue:
IMO disagree with what you have said,i have put a lot of hrs on stock,muff modded and ported 441Cs and will not go back to an old type saw.The wrap model 441C is better in every way than a 460.If you use a saw ever day then ya cant go wrong with one or two.
Better
Filter system
Less fuel and fumes
Heaps better AV
Easy start system
No tune
Responds well to modds
But at the same time the 441 is fat, the overall design is cluttered and Husky's AV systems were just as good 20 years ago. Yes the 441 is a good saw, better than the anti anything new crowd will ever admit. However it's the first of it's generation and it shows, the next go around will likely be a much cleaner package.
Look I find this stuff stupid really, it seems like everyone is at opposite ends, like always the truth is somewhere in the middle. Too much technology before it's ready never works out well. The same could be said about sitting on your thumbs and doing the same thing over and over and never changing. Do just that and someone else will pass you by, and when you try and catch up, it's too little too late. Think the US auto industry here.
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