MAJOR PITA customer

[treeman82]

I did a job for this older Italian guy over the winter, paid no problems, didn't complain... maybe a half load of chips... 2 - 3 yards, all the wood stayed, he paid that evening without any troubles... $750 for 2 guys for a half day in the dead of winter.

He referred one of his friends to me a few weeks ago... young Italian guy. Went over, took a look... he wants 3 big silver maples down, 2 in the back yard... 1 in the front. I told him ~$4,500 with the stumps. He bluffed me by saying that one of his friends would do it for $3,000... seeing as how I hadn't had ANY work come in for the last few weeks I decided to tell him I'd do it for $3,000 in green. He said I'd have to do it for $2,800 if I wanted the job. Fine... done. Called him last Thursday evening to say I'd be there this past weekend, no problem... said he'd tear down the fence so we could get back there with the trucks and chipper. Saturday morning fence isn't down, and the sprinklers are on. Now he wants a copy of my insurance certificate which I don't carry with me. Also wanted to see about me doing it for $200 cheaper AGAIN. Should have left right then and there telling him to go F himself. But everybody was coming with their gear and that would have caused some major problems with them. We did the trees and the guy was happy.

Told him I'd be back today with a backhoe to get the wood. Now this guy is a heavy equipment operator, so what do we find this morning when we get there with the machine? You guessed it... sprinklers are running for over an hour. We put some big ruts in the yard where the sprinklers were going (we only took out 3 10 wheelers full of wood!), and now the guy wants me to fix all the ruts in the yard caused by his stupidity, plus some small scuffs on the lawn caused by falling wood. He's also saying that we stained his driveway and he wants me to fix that.

MAJOR PITA this guy... he's paid me $2,000 out of $2,800 and I am heavily considering not going back with the crap he's been giving me.

 

[rahtreelimbs]

Tough call!!!


Think it over good..........word of mouth goes a long way especially on the negative end!!!

 

[okietreedude1]

Bring it all back along with the $. dump the wood and chips where ever they may fall and pitch the cash out the window as you leave.

I think you should have let his buddy do it for 3k. Im guessing it was bull. 'Sorry, got bills, fuel, insurance, help....to pay. $4400 or nothing.'

 

[alloutdoorsboy]

I learned the hard way years ago NEVER to negotate about price. As soon as you let them talk you down I think they lose respect for you or something and think they can just keep on treating you like dodo. If the customer keeps pressing me for a "better" price I always raise the price and tell them that its a better price for me.............

 

[juststumps]

got a call for a stump job,,, 2 ,,, 12 inch stumps in a raised bed,, with a brick wall 3 high.... 1 ,, 18 " stump,, next to an AC UNIT,, and up into the walkway,,, one 12" in the back yard,, 36" gate.... it's a pain in the ass job,, i work cheap $200.... gotta take the wall apart to get to the first two stumps,,, be real careful on the next one,, and take the wheels of to get thru the gate for the last one!!!!! put everthing back together and clean up!!!!!


" IS THAT YOUR BEST PRICE????"

NO<< ITS NOT<<<< I"M JUST FOOLING AROUND<<<<YOU MIGHT KNOW MY DAD<<< HE'S THE HOST OF "LETS MAKE A DEAL"

PLEASE!!!!!!!

 

[kevinj]

I did a job for this older Italian guy over the winter, paid no problems, didn't complain... maybe a half load of chips... 2 - 3 yards, all the wood stayed, he paid that evening without any troubles... $750 for 2 guys for a half day in the dead of winter.

He referred one of his friends to me a few weeks ago... young Italian guy. Went over, took a look... he wants 3 big silver maples down, 2 in the back yard... 1 in the front. I told him ~$4,500 with the stumps. He bluffed me by saying that one of his friends would do it for $3,000... seeing as how I hadn't had ANY work come in for the last few weeks I decided to tell him I'd do it for $3,000 in green. He said I'd have to do it for $2,800 if I wanted the job. Fine... done. Called him last Thursday evening to say I'd be there this past weekend, no problem... said he'd tear down the fence so we could get back there with the trucks and chipper. Saturday morning fence isn't down, and the sprinklers are on. Now he wants a copy of my insurance certificate which I don't carry with me. Also wanted to see about me doing it for $200 cheaper AGAIN. Should have left right then and there telling him to go F himself. But everybody was coming with their gear and that would have caused some major problems with them. We did the trees and the guy was happy.

Told him I'd be back today with a backhoe to get the wood. Now this guy is a heavy equipment operator, so what do we find this morning when we get there with the machine? You guessed it... sprinklers are running for over an hour. We put some big ruts in the yard where the sprinklers were going (we only took out 3 10 wheelers full of wood!), and now the guy wants me to fix all the ruts in the yard caused by his stupidity, plus some small scuffs on the lawn caused by falling wood. He's also saying that we stained his driveway and he wants me to fix that.

MAJOR PITA this guy... he's paid me $2,000 out of $2,800 and I am heavily considering not going back with the crap he's been giving me.

I'm sure I have No idea of everything that took place.
But, maybe you should have warned him to reset the timer on his sprinkler.
Keep it off for a few days.
In doing so that would allow the ground to dry out. And then at that time you could go in with your equipment.

Just guessin. I dont know all the circumstances.

 

[juststumps]

I learned the hard way years ago NEVER to negotate about price. As soon as you let them talk you down I think they lose respect for you or something and think they can just keep on treating you like dodo. If the customer keeps pressing me for a "better" price I always raise the price and tell them that its a better price for me.............

i'll go three rounds with the price up front,,,,for grinding stumps

1 price by check

2 price cash

3 price cash,, you clean up

if that dont work,,,i walk.....

most people that number 3 up front

 

[okietreedude1]

If the customer keeps pressing me for a "better" price I always raise the price and tell them that its a better price for me.............

Ive always wanted to do that but never had it in me to try. Ya know "itll be $100...'will ya do it for 75?'.....no but ill do it for 125...'but i thought it was 100'....it was, now its 150, shall we keep going?....."

 

[hornett22]

stick to your original quote.

common practice around here is the ficticious "i got another bid much cheaper".that is why my ad says i will beat any writen estimate.they never have one.

had some koreans beat me down once,never again.i do not have enough time to tell that story and it just gets me pissed off again.

i hate to be a jerk but i learned when you hear a foriegn accent,hang up the phone.

 

[Mitchell]

cultural differences

In my experience PITA customers are often from cultures where getting over on someone is good business sense not immoral. When dealing with these customers I bid high and I put things in writing now. With most folks I don't bother unless they want it. I have been ground down or held hostage for more and more work that was not specified or agreed to by myself on a couple occasions. Live and learn...

 

[Sprig]

Ive always wanted to do that but never had it in me to try. Ya know "itll be $100...'will ya do it for 75?'.....no but ill do it for 125...'but i thought it was 100'....it was, now its 150, shall we keep going?....."

Me like, a time proven approach.

Some people want everything for nothing, recognise it and defend yourself accordingly.





opcorn: opcorn: opcorn:

 

[Dadatwins]

What we have here, is a failure to communicate.

Your signature line should have guided you on this one. I understand cutting your price because of no work but this homeowner threw out the bait and you took it and ran. At that point he knew he had you and still does. Fix the lawn, get what you can out of the job, walk away and learn a valuable lesson.

 

[booboo]

that sucks

I did a job for this older Italian guy over the winter, paid no problems, didn't complain... maybe a half load of chips... 2 - 3 yards, all the wood stayed, he paid that evening without any troubles... $750 for 2 guys for a half day in the dead of winter.

He referred one of his friends to me a few weeks ago... young Italian guy. Went over, took a look... he wants 3 big silver maples down, 2 in the back yard... 1 in the front. I told him ~$4,500 with the stumps. He bluffed me by saying that one of his friends would do it for $3,000... seeing as how I hadn't had ANY work come in for the last few weeks I decided to tell him I'd do it for $3,000 in green. He said I'd have to do it for $2,800 if I wanted the job. Fine... done. Called him last Thursday evening to say I'd be there this past weekend, no problem... said he'd tear down the fence so we could get back there with the trucks and chipper. Saturday morning fence isn't down, and the sprinklers are on. Now he wants a copy of my insurance certificate which I don't carry with me. Also wanted to see about me doing it for $200 cheaper AGAIN. Should have left right then and there telling him to go F himself. But everybody was coming with their gear and that would have caused some major problems with them. We did the trees and the guy was happy.

Told him I'd be back today with a backhoe to get the wood. Now this guy is a heavy equipment operator, so what do we find this morning when we get there with the machine? You guessed it... sprinklers are running for over an hour. We put some big ruts in the yard where the sprinklers were going (we only took out 3 10 wheelers full of wood!), and now the guy wants me to fix all the ruts in the yard caused by his stupidity, plus some small scuffs on the lawn caused by falling wood. He's also saying that we stained his driveway and he wants me to fix that.

MAJOR PITA this guy... he's paid me $2,000 out of $2,800 and I am heavily considering not going back with the crap he's been giving me.

Don't you just love it when this kind of crap happens? Like someone else said, tough call on what to do next. Your name is on the job but you don't want to get totally hosed either. Let us know how it works out in the end.

We give one price, that's it, take it or leave it. Most take it. That one price factors in slow work, tough access, subbing equipment, whatever. If someone wants to pay cash and they tell us that ahead of time, price will probably come down a bit, but it's all agreed upon ahead of time. If they want to negotiate price, they can do it with someone else and will probably get what they pay for.

As for the sprinklers, we had one last summer where we needed the sprinklers off for a few days to dry the ground up so we could drive on it. It was an association and it turned into an issue w/in the association about turning the sprinklers off, but we sort of stood on the sidelines and said no trees until the ground is dry enough, period. They were nice lawns and there was no way we were going to deal with rutting them up. In the end, the sprinklers stayed off and the tree got done.

Good luck.

 

[geofore]

bluffed

You learn from your mistakes or go out of buisness. Next time you see the sprinklers on a lawn you'll know to raise the bid price$$ or walk away. Sprinklers for/in the lawn cost money but he doesn't have the price of your bid?? Somethings wrong with that picture. You should have told him the sprinklers are turned off or the wood doesn't move. Too late for that now but you know better next time and remember to have the customer mark/flag the location of the sprinkler heads in the lawn next time so your crew won't run them over. Be thankful your not having to replace the plumbing for the sprinklers. Had one customers wife tell me about the sprinklers after the truck was backed into the lawn, lucky we didn't run one over but it would have been better to have known about them/popup sprinkler heads beforehand. Ask next time before you start. If they can afford the sprinklers they can afford the asking price you gave them. To replace the plumbing/sprinkler system would cost more than you got for the job and more than your asking price originally. When he pays you the rest throw in a few compliments about how well the sprinklers work and ask what a system like his costs to have installed. I'll bet he tells you more than your bid of 4.6k on the trees.
In the school of hard knocks you just got an expensive lesson in risk assesment/damage control. It could have been wor$e if a Plumbing 101 was thrown in.

 

[Treeman587]

I give everyone a fair estimate right off the bat. Fair to them and fair to me. I also will give them numbers of other services in the area if they feel they are getting a bad deal. I dont budge. Thats the price take it or leave it. I may not have work pouring out my arse, But I am not kicking myself for not making any money either. rich people and foreigners are the worst. I dont take any crap anymore. I hate working for FREE.

 

[DonnyO]

In my experience PITA customers are often from cultures where getting over on someone is good business sense not immoral. When dealing with these customers I bid high and I put things in writing now. ..

I haven't read such good advice in a looooooooong time. I have several friends from other countries and the sure do enjoy beating someone down on the price of goods and services (it almost always works!).

 

[treeman82]

I've decided to not go back. After talking with the guy today, I don't think he'll pay me the remaining money unless the stumps are ground, cleaned up, soil brought in, his ruts fixed, and an extra stump ground out. Not worth the hassle. I saw him yesterday, and told him that it cost me $140 to dump the ugly stuff at this one place... he said I should have taken it to the guy who he got my number from... I told him that the only way I could have done that was if I brought over a grapple truck, and did he want me to drive a grapple truck on his yard? That shut him up very quickly. Even his wife said he's a moron and doesn't think sometimes when she saw the problems that were being caused by his stupid sprinkler system.

 

[Buzz 880]

I've decided to not go back. After talking with the guy today, I don't think he'll pay me the remaining money unless the stumps are ground, cleaned up, soil brought in, his ruts fixed, and an extra stump ground out. Not worth the hassle. I saw him yesterday, and told him that it cost me $140 to dump the ugly stuff at this one place... he said I should have taken it to the guy who he got my number from... I told him that the only way I could have done that was if I brought over a grapple truck, and did he want me to drive a grapple truck on his yard? That shut him up very quickly. Even his wife said he's a moron and doesn't think sometimes when she saw the problems that were being caused by his stupid sprinkler system.

Good call by the sounds of this guy you probaly won't get paid so forget him and move on.I had a guy like that a few years ago tried to be nice but i got yhe sh.t end of the stick and it just cost me money.

 

[BigUglySquirrel]

Ive always wanted to do that but never had it in me to try. Ya know "itll be $100...'will ya do it for 75?'.....no but ill do it for 125...'but i thought it was 100'....it was, now its 150, shall we keep going?....."

This has become my new gold standard! My past practice was to "cushion" my bid a bit to allow for the hagglers. (Quick note--most foreign cultures consider it a way of life--learned that much for certain. They start SUPER high and work it down to reasonable.) Anyway--my friend tells me one day that if they start to haggle down, start going up. It's perfectly fair. They want a price better for them, you want a price better for you. I will fold to the original price if they catch on quick enough but as someone else mentioned, once you drop from the initial bid they feel like they have some control over you and it seems that things decline from there. "Can you get that little limb?" "I thought you were taking the firewood." etc etc etc...

As far as yard damage--I'd consider fixing it even though he's a tard. I agree with the word of mouth business philosophy. In the end it will cost you far more than if you'd just bit it and made the guy happy. HOWEVER--get your money. I'm sure the repairs won't cost the $800 you're out so it makes better economical sense also. Also, keep in mind the events you've been through when you bid for this guys friends...they'll most likely use similar tactics to work you down. (I'm REALLY hoping that this doesn't sound raciallly charged...I'm just saying that he's most likely going to tell his friends..."Oh I did this and he folded..." I mean, after all...you're just the tree guy.)

 

[booboo]

Two thoughts on totally different things that this thread brings up;

We have a sizable population around here of people with ethnic backgrounds where haggling over a price of anything is the norm and it's a matter of pride to be able to talk a price down or "get something for nothing". Some of these folks are going to be customers but if you know the background ahead of time, it can work out fine. We give 1 price, take it or leave it. But if we think they're going to accept the bid but try to nickel and dime us later ( "Can you get those dead branches while you're here? Oh, there's another stump out by the fence"), there's nothing wrong with bumping the initial bid up a bit to cover the anticipated aggravation. That way, we don't get hosed and they're happy because in thier mind they got something for nothing. It doesn't always work out, no matter how hard you try, sometimes you're going to get bit.

Regarding sprinkler heads, we always ask if they have sprinklers and always flag the heads if they do. Fixing broken sprinkler heads sucks and crunching them looks pretty unprofessional. The pop up ones only have to be turned on for a few seconds to flag them, not long enough to get the ground wet. Totally worth the extra 5 minutes it takes.

If all this stuff wasn't a challenge sometimes, it wouldn't be any fun either. My .02

:rockn: