MAJOR PITA customer

[tree md]

I have had my share of PITA customers and had to eat a job or two. Whenever I give a bid, as I figure it out, I cushion it and figure an asking price and a bottom line price. Dependant on the customer how big a cushion I use. For folks that seem to be hard to deal with, I figure in the headache fee. I will no longer do business with some foreigners. I have had them still try to haggle after the deal is made. Nothing more aggravating than a customer trying to haggle you down while you are in the tree working. I have had experiences where they have been down right dishonest. I don't have room in my life for that aggravation anymore.

Don't get me wrong, I have no racial prejudice against anyone. Don't matter what color you are to me, I would still give you the same level of service as my next door neighbor. I have just learned to avoid the people I have found to not have the same values as me.

Could you imagine getting hurt on this job? Beware of the under priced job that you are doing to put beans on the table. That's the one you'll get hurt on. When they start trying to haggle me down I go to a certain point (that I have predetermined) then just simply tell them that I am not in this business for my health. If they don't go for my bottom line I walk away.

I would finish the job though. You got your name on it. Negative publicity goes a lot further than positive.

 

[elmnut]

I would finish the job though. You got your name on it. Negative publicity goes a lot further than positive.[/QUOTE]

Your growth and prosperity will come from the unsatisfied and the needy. These are the people who may or may not know they need a solution. It is your job to uncover their hidden needs and supply the solution. Make the guy happy, he will tell everyone he knows about your company, more work will come your way.

 

[treeman82]

The guy called me up last night and told me not to come back for the stumps / ruts... he'll take care of it himself. No problem.

I was talking last night with one of my friends who was helping me on Saturday with the removal part. Apparently a small branch went into the ground (less than 3" diameter) and the guy was complaining about it to my friends. What did he think? That there wouldn't be any scuffs on the ground when we're removing 3 trees between 20 and 40 inches DBH? Particularly at the price he was supposed to be paying. My buddy running the backhoe the other day did next to no damage to the turf other than the ruts where this moron had left the sprinklers going. Keep in mind we filled up his 22 yard, 10 wheel dump truck 3 times with wood.

 

[belgian]

I

I told him ~$4,500 with the stumps. He bluffed me by saying that one of his friends would do it for $3,000... seeing as how I hadn't had ANY work come in for the last few weeks I decided to tell him I'd do it for $3,000 in green. He said I'd have to do it for $2,800 if I wanted the job. Fine... done.

First advice : you lowered your price from 4500 to 2800 $, which is almost a 40 % discount. You lost your credibility right there. He probably got immediately the feeling that he paid too much anyway, hence the request for further discount. A fair price is a serious issue, defend it like your life would depend on it.

Called him last Thursday evening to say I'd be there this past weekend, no problem... said he'd tear down the fence so we could get back there with the trucks and chipper. Saturday morning fence isn't down, and the sprinklers are on.

Price is one thing. Conditions are another important thing. You should have made the conditions/ consequenses very clear when the deal was made, and point out the penalties if they were not met by the customer.

Now he wants a copy of my insurance certificate which I don't carry with me.

That seems pretty fair to me. A professional should always have that document readily available for the customer, or third parties.

Also wanted to see about me doing it for $200 cheaper AGAIN. Should have left right then and there telling him to go F himself. But everybody was coming with their gear and that would have caused some major problems with them. We did the trees and the guy was happy.

No renegotiation is possible after the deal was made. I would have made that very clear and threatened to charge him with cost related to transport and labour cost for showing up if the deal were not to go through.

MAJOR PITA this guy... he's paid me $2,000 out of $2,800 and I am heavily considering not going back with the crap he's been giving me.[/

QUOTE]

Good choice not to go back. This customer is very unstable and difficult to satisfy, and it was very obvious from the beginning. Like someone else mentioned, there was a failure to communicate clearly from the beginning. Culture indeed plays a role in price setting, but the USA is not Italy, your customer should know that.

Learn from it and go on, it happens to anyone in business.
Good luck

 

[treeman82]

If somebody wants to see my insurance certificate I call up the insurance co and have them issue the person a copy, it only takes an hour or two during regular business hours. That's the only way I'll do it. Like that it's a current copy, and is made out to the person whom I am to be working for. In a pinch I have some older copies at home, but those are just the copies I get in the mail.

 

[tree md]

"Apparently a small branch went into the ground (less than 3" diameter) and the guy was complaining about it to my friends. What did he think? That there wouldn't be any scuffs on the ground when we're removing 3 trees between 20 and 40 inches"

I tell every customer I talk to that there may be a little ground damage and that I can't be held responsible for that. I give that disclaimer on every sale.

 

[SilentElk]

"Apparently a small branch went into the ground (less than 3" diameter) and the guy was complaining about it to my friends. What did he think? That there wouldn't be any scuffs on the ground when we're removing 3 trees between 20 and 40 inches"

I tell every customer I talk to that there may be a little ground damage and that I can't be held responsible for that. I give that disclaimer on every sale.

I always mentioned to the customer there would be some 'divots' (spelling) from falling branches and the like.

 

[Sunrise Guy]

Interesting reading in this thread. I usually do not haggle over my price with anybody, no matter their ethnicity. I recently bid a Korean, high-tech engineer's gig and that was that, or so I thought, from the way he acted after I gave him my price. A week later he calls me and says, "So, when are you coming out here?" He was a good guy, big mansion, nice wife, lots of trees, lots of bucks for the job.

I do not think it's a good idea to pad your price to allow for negotiations. Sooner or later it'll catch up to you, as people talk, no matter how small or large your town may be. I know some of you do engage in creative pricing, and if it works for you, good on ya, but I have never found it to be worth the hassle. Once you start playing the "Guess My Real Price" game, I think you start losing credibility with the public at large. If you're not making a good living at this profession of ours, take a step back and see how often you play that game. In general, I think it's far better, and much less of a hassle, to give a fair price and then head on off to your next bid.

I think the trick is, in the final analysis, to know your market well, and what price will sell for a given gig. To jump all over the place, like our poster who went from $4500 down to $2800 (!!!) is an unbelievably bad business practice, as I see it.

 

[joesawer]

A long time ago I learned that many people can pick up on desperation like a dog smells fear. I have had to do some pretty desperate and non profitable things to make ends meet but you can never let a prospective customer know your situation. You have to give them the impression that you don't care if you get the job or not, not that you don't care about them but that if you don't get their job its OK you will just go to the next one.
Once I was working in the shop of an employer when a former employers smart Aleck son came in. He made the comment that they had never paid anyone so much for so little. My supervisor laughed and agreed that that was the case with them also. I just laughed with them and went about my business. I know that I am good at what I do and if they don't want to pay me I will go somewhere else. I bid their work for them with the same attitude.
I totally agree that the amount you reduced your price leaves a lot of room for the customer to speculate. When doing yard jobs or even forest jobs I allways explain to the customer what kind of damage they cam expect and what it will cost to reduce it. It is almost always cheaper to fix minor yard damage than to rope and hand carry each piece.
Any heavy equipment operator should know better than to run the sprinklers before you bring in a back hoe. Did he know that you where going to use a back hoe that day?
Communicate, communicate, communicate. I have had first time customers tell me I don't care how you do it, just do it. I still try to give them a fairly detailed plan and explain that I need them to understand what I am doing so that we can work together on getting the job done. I need your drive way to not be blocked that afternoon, or I am going to have your drive way blocked for about this amount of time, etc, etc.
This also gives them a greater appreciation for what you are doing. A whole hour spent talking with some one about a job will make them feel like they are important to you and can save some misunderstandings later. I have had many customers go with my higher bid because, they felt more confident in me than in my competitors.
I'll stop rambling now. Good luck.

 

[SilentElk]

Nice write up Joe. I would agree. One you set a price do not change it!! If you want the job bad, you can lower your price but never, ever, ever, ever without modifying the original agreement. Such as: $4500 to remove the tree. You want a cheaper price? I'll take $250 off if you take down that fence. Another $200 if I can drive over your bushes, another $1500 if you clean up the mess. Another $500 is that hot wife of yours wears a bikini and drags brush all day for us, Etc.

I will lower my price for someone but not without some sort of compensation. Oh well. Everyone has a bad job sometime. You probably did right not going back.

 

[treeman82]

I was VERY clear about the backhoe. I told him the exact model number, and told him the day we would be there as well as the approximate time.

 

[zopi]

I paint bikes as a sideline/hobby...got some trophy winners too...it costs
about 600-800 bucks for the material to do a full custom chopper...and I guesstimate my labor/time in there somewhere..I give the customer a fair
ballpark estimate with an upper end that is not to be exceeded unless they
ask to change the work after it is started..and I never, ever charge that full price, and i never ever back off a price..ever..if they can't afford it, they don't need it..and if they won't pay for it they won't value it..

 

[booboo]

our turn

Kind of funny that I chose to chime in on this thread because now it was our turn. Not a major PITA, more like a minor PITA.

The job was supposed to be 3 simple takedowns for a contractor who was way behind schedule. Contractor is a good guy, worked for him before. It was a rush job for us, he's got pavers coming Monday and the trees were dead and in the way. We were on a tight schedule, had other places to be.

It ended up being the 3 takedowns, pruning 2 others, pulling a couple of hangers, cutting some brush and chipping a pile of junk that he had pulled out of the woods. It got kind of humorous - "Hey, while you're here", "Hey, while you're up there". In the end, we were sort like, "No more dude, we're done." As I'm finishing up raking he's still pulling junk out of the woods and throwing it into the chip truck. I didn't price the job or see the invoice but I'm sure there was extra compensation for the extra work. Happens to everyone from time to time.

 

[Dadatwins]

I was VERY clear about the backhoe. I told him the exact model number, and told him the day we would be there as well as the approximate time.

Before bringing any piece of equipment into a customers backyard, I will walk the path and check the soil conditions. Also a good idea to check with property owner about underground septic system, heard about a guy driving a loader over a septic field that collapsed swallowing the loader in a pit of yuck. Don't mean to keep the flame on, but this situation was a lack of communication between you and the homeowner. He being another contractor could make him also responsibile for part of the problem as he should have known better, but the bottom line is YOU were the contractor and he was the customer. Never assume the customer knows anything about your operation, they should be informed of every step of the operation before it happens, and what part of the operation is their responsibility. ie pets inside, patio furniture moved, sprinkler system marked and turned off. Simple steps make even the most PIA jobs go better. As for walking away and leaving the problem, there is an old saying about the hundred 'atta boys' yet everyone remembers the one 'oh sh!t'

 

[Sep]

Once a hero, always an a$$hole.

-Sep