Man dies while trimming tree.12-18-03

[Davidsinatree]

Kansas Citys local news reported a tree trimmer had died thursday afternoon in Wichita,KS.
I had to wait for the library to get a copy of the ''Wichita Eagle'' news paper to get more info. I did a search on there web site but it looks like they charge a fee to read there articals.
This is how the articl reads from the Wichita Eagle.

MAN DIES WHILE TRIMMING TREE ON NORTH HYDRAULIC
A 42 year old Wichita man died thursday afternoon in a tree trimming accident. It appears the man was a self employed contractor who was trimming an elm tree in the back yard of a home, Wichita fire captain ***** said.
The man was working about 15' up in the tree when a 40' branch he was cutting fell on him, pinning him in a fork in the tree.
The branch weighed about 1000#, fire captain said.
The man had already died ,likely from internal injuries, when rescuers arrived at the home shortly after 5 pm.
The man was working alone, and it appears nobody witnessed the accident, fire captain said.

This is all that was printed on 12-19-03.
The mans name was not reported. And I left out the fire captains name.

I wish there were more details on this accident so we could learn more about working safe.
I do wish his family the best.

 

[tophopper]

Rocky,
I do agree working alone is a bad idea and potentially dangerous, but have some compassion, you automatically assume this guy was unqualified or and idiot. dont get me wrong he very well could have been unqualfied or not.

You've never dropped out a 40' lead from at tree at 15 ft?

I dont understand exactly how this lead could have fell on him, unless he used poor cutting techniques, my point, lighten up while most accidents can be prevented they do happen. Even to qualified and trained people

 

[Gypo Logger]

As such, working alone is not a bad thing. It depends on the personality of the individual. Some persons abhor others around them while working, regardless the job. They believe it to be a distraction and therefore an accident waiting to happen. This is just the way they work and don't feel they need to appologize for it. They understand the consequences and weigh them. Fear is our worst enemy and a coward dies many deaths.
There is are several things that can fell a man, inexperience, fatigue, being driven, plain stupidity and most of all, but never talked about is emotional poise. This comes under the heading of mental distraction, such as when ones mind is preoccupied with such things as marital or family discord, financial difficulties, death or ill heath in the family and the list goes on.
So as we can see all the safety equipment in the world and back up crew, isn't going to save one against oneself.
If we can't tolerate our own company, then who's fault is that?
With a song in your heart and one positive thought occupying your mind you are relatively impervious.
John

 

[Typhoon]

I relate well with Gypo's opinion. Although some don't like to work alone, I actually do work well alone. I think it's all about a state of mind. I have done alot of things in my life, a pilot, motocross racing, rock climbing, scuba diving, felling trees, and much more. I have found that if I am well rested, in the right state of mind, and use the brain god gave me, I will be cutting edge. Accidents happen, nothing can prevent that. Thats why they call them accidents. But most of them sure can be avoided if you use your head. Carelessness, fatigue, and lack of knowledge are your worst enemies. It is possible that this guy was a professional.. who knows. Accidents happen to the best of us. He will be in my prayers.

 

[Eagle1]

Rocky J-
Insensitive Jerk (ALIVE insensitive jerk) [/B][/QUOTE]

Every dog has its day.

 

[NeTree]

Sorry guys- I'm with Rocky on this one.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Originally posted by netree
Sorry guys- I'm with Rocky on this one.

Erik, that's because bot you and brian jump to conclusions feet first.

Accidents can happen to professionals too.

Instead of just saying that you think he was operating with limited skills, why not eloborate on what draws you to that conclusion, aside form working alone. I know a number of competant people who do that.

 

[Keener]

Just a thought.
What if the climber decided that he could just flop one or both leads so he climbs to the main fork (at 15') and thinking he can use the face cut angle plus maybe a dash of snap cut, he thinks he can jump the lead horizontal on impact.
A little sloppy on the face, flaw in the holding wood or gust of wind and the lead hits tip first and flops the butt end right into the fork on top of him.
Perhaps if he took the time to consider "what is the worst outcome possible in this situation" he would have taken a different approach.
Bottom line, we can all make the "yellow light" decisions that don't work out that one time in 100.
No excuses, just a thought.

 

[Keener]

One reason I can see for being reluctant to go higher is the tree was dead and he decided "crap that looks rotten, I'm not going any higher" on this assumption he decides the lead will shatter when it hits the ground and regrettably it does not.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by Keener

Perhaps if he took the time to consider "what is the worst outcome possible in this situation" he would have taken a different approach.

There ya go, Eh?

I do that instinctively all the time.

It's SOP with me.

 

[NeTree]

Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn

why not eloborate on what draws you to that conclusion, aside form working alone.

I know a number of competant people who do that.

Actually John, I don't think ANY competent person works alone.

That aside, I can't envision any situation where dropping 40' of lead at 15' would be necessary. If you don't have the right tools and training, you shouldn't be doing the work. (Not to say this guy had neither... who knows?)

I don't jump to conclusions... I make observations based on the data given and relate that to my experience.

Frankly, the dissection of others' mistakes helps keep US from making the same ones. I think that's the best use of this forum, not just to boo-hoo and cry and say what great guys they were.

Don't confuse clinical analysis with not caring that someone lost their life. We come here and tell a group of relative strangers about how we screwed up... and discuss what we did wrong...and then (hopefully) prevent the next guy from doing the same thing wrong.

We do these things because we VALUE lives, not because we are trying to degrade the value of someone else losing theirs.

As I said before, we are a big famliy... a dysfuntional one at times, but I hate to see members of my family get hurt- even people I may not apparantly care for much.

 

[Eagle1]

Erik,
Nice touch. Well put.

Sure we can feel sorry for the poor guy. But what was he thinking? He sure didn't desirve to die but some homeowners either are to cheap for a pro-arborist or are the sh** lucky guys that get away with all kinds of dangerous around the house stuff. (plumbing/gas/elect.)
Now he is a statistic to that type of man/homeowner.
To bad, didn't sound like a good way to go.

 

[geofore]

death/trees/news

The bad thing about news reports like this, it's not really news because it contains too few facts. Sounds like sensationalism to sell papers. The bad cut/notch theory works.
A barberchair works but not so common in elm, more common in white ash. The tree is green, tip of the limb hits the ground first, the weight of the limb loads the branch and it recoils back into the tree traping him. He is at 15' and the limb is 40' long, long enough to kick back and crush him. Then there is the really bad cut and the limb slides back off the cut on top of him before it tips over toward the ground. No snap, no jump, just slides backwards. The bad cut or wind twists the limb and it comes back on him as it twists instead of falling the other way. I too wonder why he did not climb higher, could it have been he had no PPE, no ropes and had to stand in the croutch to keep his balance?
We are left guessing and a tree guy has died. If you don't learn from mistakes you are doomed to repeat them if you live that long. Tree work is dangerous and the report does not even say if he was wearing his PPE. Worst of all, no one there to call 911, work a rope for him or witness what went wrong.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Not enough info.

We can speculate all day.

 

[Eagle1]

Again MB...right on

 

[chainsawworld]

exactly, not enough info.
was he tied to the butt of the leader he was cutting? sounds like he even may have been tied to the leader it self. was he tied above the knotch in the leader next to him.?
the safest conclusion here is he should not have been working alone. it is not safe for anyone doing tree work to work alone.
an acccident is an event or events unforeseen by any of the participants. even with the intense training i give accidents are not eliminated, simply reduced.
john, i am not picking on you but in the pictures you post and the stories you tell(no safety gear and working alone for example) it is just a matter of time before you get hurt.
it is just to easy to get dead in this line of work. be careful !!!!!
marty

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Now this is more of what I envisioned starting this forum.

Just to say he was stupid and untrained lends nothing. It is also neither analysis or discetion.

Speculation is a good thing, Geo's senario is what I see as most probable.

Heck I've jumped huge wood off when I have the room and customers blessing to divot. 60ft tree 40 ft of room take a 30 ft top. Just make sure it separates early.

 

[NeTree]

...sounds like Rocky's looking for some wabbit stew....

 

[geofore]

Accident/death

Rocky, don't kill the messenger, give a better explaination of what can go wrong in one post instead of 4 posts. Don't just say bad cut, lack of PPE or homeownner in tree. Elaborate on what it is that can go wrong. I've had a green limb climb back up (recoil) and pin my leg to the trunk, put a crack in my shin bone. Greenstick is what the doc called it, looked like a crack on the x-ray. I pulled my leg up, I thought out of the way, just in time to get it pinned.
I knew what you were saying but would anyone who doesn't do a lot of tree work know? You presume they would, I don't think the new guys would. I've seen over the past 35 years, everything I wrote happen to me or someone else a new guy would not have had enough time on the job to have seen all that.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I am not ripping or complimenting anyone.


What i am trying to do is keep this forum a place of thoughtful, constructive dialog.

Well excuse me for not phrasing myself like Geofore, even though we said the same thing!

I disagree.

All we are asking is that people be a bit less negative and a bit more thoughtfull inntheir posting on this forum

And yes, more respectful of the dead.

Mr. Moderator.