Canyon Angler
Addicted to ArboristSite
If the fuel wasn't provided and mixed by me, my saws don't run, period. That's a bright line.
I would no sooner burn somebody else's horse piss in one of my saws than beat his wife or diddle his dog.
Mixed gas anxiety
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I would no sooner burn somebody else's horse piss in one of my saws than beat his wife or diddle his dog.
One group I worked with used 5 gallon cans for unleaded gas (generators, pressure washers, fuel mixing, etc.) and 1 gallon cans for mixed chainsaw fuel.
But nothing beats CLEARLY marked containers.
Philbert
But nothing beats CLEARLY marked containers.
Philbert
I just pour some into a empty bottle and look at the color.
Just how does that occur in the absence of oxygen? Where does she evaporate to? Awhile back I made a joke about sunlight increasing evaporation if you leave the cap off but that will actually occur MORE in a red can. The initial argument was in regards to sunlight breaking down gasoline in what is generally assumed to be a sealed container. Now OF COURSE fuel cans are not perfectly sealed so it is impossible to remove all oxygen from the equation. I would like to see evidence of how sunlight itself as a single factor, absent of all others breaks down fuel.
Sunlight breaks down plastic, over time, and plastic isn't completely impermeable, so it makes sense that it would eventually break down the fuel. No one with any sense stores their gas cans sitting out in the sun for long periods of time though, so I don't think it'd generally be a concern.
Timber King (Kansas City) Used to have white gas Tanks and now have black for their portable Band Mills. the gas in the white tanks soured faster and caused problems.
Same with me But it is 4 not 3 "ME, Myself And I AND of course THAT OTHER CRAZY GUY IN MY HEAD.Oh yeah, for sure. There are 3 people (besides me) on earth who I trust to use my saws or whose mix fuel I'll use.
Yes sunlight breaks down plastic cans over time. I believe I mentioned that here.
As I said in those posts sunlight will break down plastic but as I said here.....
Now show me where sunlight as a SINGLE factor breaks down fuel. Of course plastic is a semi-permeable substance and it is impossible to restrict all oxygen. I believe I said that.
Now I assume you are referencing storing portable fuels cans whether it be plastic, steel, or whatever material. I fully agree that storing fuel in a 5 gallon plastic can in the sunlight for a long period of time is not a wise idea. I agree not because the sunlight breaks down the fuel though. I agree because it allows sunlight to degrade the container, increase heat, and thus increase evaporation.
The general statement that "no one with any sense stores their gas cans sitting out in the sun for long periods of time" Well that I cannot agree with at a basic level. There are hundreds of millions of gallons stored in outdoor tanks all over the USA. The sunlight is not breaking it down. It does have evaporation issues though due to oxygen.
On a funny side note think of this. We store fuel above ground in steel tanks because the sunlight with oxygen would breakdown the plastic. We store fuel in plastic tanks underground because the soil with oxygen breaks down the steel
Well heck then all us with 500 and 1000 gallon tanks painted white need to paint them black. That black paint will surely help with heat and evaporation.......
I love learning something new everydaycamel2019
ArboristSite Guru
Could be worse I guy I know borrowed his neighbour’s husky 365 and put this stuff we called Wt• in it. this is a mix of god knows what I think mostly kerosene and used motor oil/ atf and gasoline somehow it’s still running and I gave him a barking at and he hasn’t done it since I told him how much a replacement saw would cost.
I should have been more clear. I was specifically referencing plastic fuel jugs. Obviously bulk fuel tanks sit out in the sun all the time and are fine. I don't know if the sunlight as a single factor breaks down the fuel or not. I do know that storing fuel in a plastic jug in the sun for long periods is a bad idea, regardless of the color of the jug. My part in this conversation started because I mentioned that I use translucent fuel jugs, which makes it simpler to tell what's in them. Someone else then responded that sunlight breaks down fuel, to which I responded that I don't leave the jugs sitting out in the sun.
NAH I just mentioned an ordeal with a bandsaw that had been through 4 engines in a silly short amount of run time, these are 4 stroke. They concluded the white tanks were affecting the Gas.Well heck then all us with 500 and 1000 gallon tanks painted white need to paint them black. That black paint will surely help with heat and evaporation.......
Things are better for him after Timber Kings' decision.
I do know gas from the 60s' (leaded) lasted in steel tanks in the ground until I dug them up in 2002, and it smelled and burned fresh. About 100 gallons from the gas war days Dad had left. I also note gas drained out of cars That my brother crushes is soured in less than a summer. So Those tanks are plastic and steel out of the direct sun. One can get in a quandary getting too anal idiotical cross comparing every ones beliefs but to me Gasoline is now unleaded so is not as stable (Shorter shelf life). When you put soured unleaded in a 4 stroke flat head (Yeah I did on a Sunday) like my Onan 4 cyl welder It quit running within minutes. The valves seized and I spent a few hours freeing the seized ones and it ran well after that. (valves and 2 strokes are sort of off topic)
I guess the best/safest practice is FRESH GAS. Put the questionable and bad gas in a crap can on the side of a shed visible from the road for the crackheads/thieves.
I am preoccupied with one of my German Shepherds (She is 12-1/2 yrs old) I kept as a pup so don't be surprised if I am absent from these conversations for a while ... If she Lasts until tomorrow I will probably have to take her to the vet and let her Go.. been going on to long for her ..
Explanation on post 72 I didn't take the time to reread this reply. I had to go tend to one of my ailing dogs. The Wifey isn't able enough and hollered for help. So I hit send and ended up not saying what was on my mind properly.
Guess I was absent to long.
Any howz Reading through the comments I do know more than I did.
Canyon Angler
Addicted to ArboristSite
Oxygen isn't necessary for evaporation to occur.
The atmosphere.
If you think the gasoline is re-condensing inside your "sealed" gas can out in the blazing sun, I've got news for ya.
I left a can of PVC glue (new unopened I believe) set on the dirt and rain hit fast, packed up quickly and forgot the glue and the next day it was trash as far as I was concerned. My thoughts were that the metal can was warm then rain was cold and SUCKED in the rain/water through a supposedly sealed lid the can never collapsed from vacuum the water had to get up through the threaded seal. This was a Quart size can. Why can't gas vapor vent out the same way?
ihookem
ArboristSite Operative
Yes, I dont thing there are any solvents in Amsoil to help the Amsoil absorb into the gas. That is why every time I put in 2 oz. per gallon, I look down and it is sitting on the bottom . It does this every time and really needs much more shaking up . This is likely why they get away with 100/1 mix. Sulvents are likely not counted as lube . I am sure many 2 stroke oils are 50% sulvents , meaning that you need twice the amount in a can. I hope I didnt confuse everyone even worse than before. I also dont think anyone needs to go more than 50/1. There are reasons why they say 50/1. It is tested over and over. If 2 stroke chainsaws, take Stihl for example , said 50/1 was the right mix, and consumers determined 50/1 was not enough , then their motors would be blowing up left and right. If that were to happen with a bunch of guys like us, you would have guys that would not buy another Stihl as long as he lives. We are that fussy. A perfect example is this thread. I have ran Amsoil with 1 oz. per gallon for a long time with no ill effects. Amsoil has tested their 2 stroke oil down to 300/1 and the engines did not seize. I think we are safe with 50/1, plenty of oil , but not too much neither.
I run 40 to 1 Amsoil Saber and no problems ever.
Fireman Bill
ArboristSite Lurker
I also add my oil first. I also run 90 octane non meth with 2oz of sea foam in 1.9 gallons of mixed gas. I use 2- 1 oz containers of Stihl Ultra oil in 1.9 gallons of gas. I’m not sure what it works out to mix wise 48-1 or so. Anyway ive done this a long time and i also filter my gas into the 2-gallon can as I don’t trust it unless i see it filtered myself.
In the past I always added oil first into my mix cans, shook it up and lived a happy life. THEN I bought three new white translucent Stihl cans, Two "Dolmars" and 2 1/2 gallon can. I added the oil and then Chevron Supreme and shook my normal amount. I found the oil did not disperse but left a lot on the bottom at the spot where it landed on the bottom of the can. The amount of shaking it took to truly mix all the oil was astounding. After that I added the oil after filling the can because it made it easier the mix the oil into the gasoline.
PS I was using Opti 2, Blendzall, and Stihl (I forget which grade). I liked Blendzall the best but it doesn't have a dye and make my boss and coworkers go crazy.
PPS Anyone living in Cali knows that part of the reasons, there are many, that we got "new" plastic gasoline cans was that Scientists discovered the old type of plastic would allow lighter components of gasoline to permeate the walls and escape to the atmosphere. Now the new Dolmar cans are metal. That way fumes can't escape through the plastic, gasoline will now have to wait until the seams start leaking.
PS I was using Opti 2, Blendzall, and Stihl (I forget which grade). I liked Blendzall the best but it doesn't have a dye and make my boss and coworkers go crazy.
PPS Anyone living in Cali knows that part of the reasons, there are many, that we got "new" plastic gasoline cans was that Scientists discovered the old type of plastic would allow lighter components of gasoline to permeate the walls and escape to the atmosphere. Now the new Dolmar cans are metal. That way fumes can't escape through the plastic, gasoline will now have to wait until the seams start leaking.
SteveSr
Addicted to ArboristSite
This is precisely ther reason that "old" gas is just as bad as straight gas in a 2-stroke. The high volatiles in the fuel were a considerable amount of cooling for a 2-stroke engine. Once they "leave the building" (or container) they are not available to cool the motor any more. 4-strokes are less sensitive to this as they get a "cooling" rest every other revolution.
I don't know what plastic material that Cali moved to but the polyethylene of most plastic jugs is permeable to fuel vapor.
