I went to check out some saws yesterday at my kubota dealer. But all really learned is that its time to find a new dealer.I knew more about the 180 than he did, but if he didn't know the answer he was quick to make something up, only 1 pro saw a 441, no echos although he is a echo dealer, and no husky pro saws- told me there was no difference between husky pro saw and a homeowner saw. Also no chance of bar/chain swaps said he would have order anything other 14" and safety chain, he don't even stock anything but safety chain. I did get to handle a 180 and I think its moving down on my list. So now I'm looking for a new saw and new dealer.