MS 880 Given to Me

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You know, Vintage, you got me thinking about something. I need to compare this apples to apples and show my work. OEM to AM.

Then I'll have data to show in comparison and prove or disprove my hypothesis. Thank you!
 
No no, you haven’t hurt anyones feelings, but you have been given so much solid advice for 5 pages and you’ve rebutted it and are unable to see the culprit of your issue and now you are pushing away the people who really know their stuff because you won’t listen.

You clearly are interested in pushing the envelope, that’s great, but that won’t solve your issues in this case. Your engine needed oil, it wasn’t getting enough, it scored. Nothing you can come up with will allow it to run without oil.

Pistons, brands, skirt coatings, cylinder plating etc has nothing, zero, zilch, nada to do with your issue on this saw you have, yet you are set on thinking that addressing these will reduce your chances of this issue occurring again if you address them, but that’s simply not true. We’ve explained that this isn’t the case yet you refuse to believe it.

You don’t seem to process the important aspects of information that members are telling you, yet these people have been involved with saws their whole lives.

Anyway, nothing more can be said to get everyone’s point across than what has been said, it’s now up to you how you proceed.

I think if you re read everyone’s comments with a fresh mindset without the preconceived notion / belief you currently have, you may realise what everyone is telling you and actually be able to become better / more knowledgeable on the topic.

I’m not trying to bash you or give you a hard time, just trying to help you see the reality of the situation and stop you trying to reinvent the wheel. The wheel doesn’t need fancy coatings, complex tread and excellent stability to avoid a puncture; it just needs not come in contact with the nail…

Your saw’s piston and cylinder doesn’t need all the fancy stuff you think it does to avoid future issues, it’s a well tested combo, it just needs the right fuel to air ratio. Give it that and it will outlast the majority of the old buggers on this forum ;)
 
Vintage, thank you for your comments. I agree with you for sure that the saw lasted a long time with minimal issues! I will follow your advice and re-read all the comments. I did find an interesting youtube video comparing the brands I mentioned earlier and I wonder if anyone here uses them?

 
I might not go deep into engineering specs, beyond the basics however I have two 076 AV Stihl's that I picked up in a barn find when buying a band saw. The seller bought the house and things came with it.

I replaced both Pistons and heads on both of them since I got them both for 300 dollars along with a sperber mill. I used them for Chainsaw milling which is hard on any saw.

I replaced them from SawAgain LLC .
Two years spacing between the first one that went and the second. I could not find OEM for the saw, but the engine is still sold by Stilh from my understanding as a concrete saw. The first time I just bought it and the second time spoke with the guy at SawAgain and decided it was my best option. Both saws are working great and as stated one for almost 2 years.

SAS0569Cross Performance Stihl 075 076 Ts 760 Nikasil Plated Cylinder Kit Replaces Oem 1111 020 1206

Stihl, where I am, will not even work on the older saws. Had a certified person at ACE but after one month of waiting for a repair on the compression button, I abandoned that and just decided to repair it myself. (I was a licensed aircraft mechanic but moved on to other things a long time ago. So not without knowledge) The first saw had an issue with vibration but did not know that at first. After some time it refused to start I checked it out, and had a loose exhaust and poor compression. I noted the loose exhaust but did not add much consequence till later. I replaced just the piston and rings at first and had the head honed by the Mech friend. I used it but not great on power, and replaced the piston and head with the help of a buddy with years of experience as a mechanic. After we fixed it and with a lot more experience I noticed the vibration issues and replaced all the mounts, I also changed out the exhaust gasket with a metal type from Napa that you cut out, and came in a large sheet. I could not locate an OEM gasket or any specific one at the time. After solving the mounts and also chainsaw sharpening changes so that little vibration occurs I have not had any other issue with the saw. It powers through.

The second saw froze during a really hot 118-degree day on a fool's errand sawing a bunch of logs I was dropping off for free that were unusable for me at a veteran house from craigslist when I posted free pine logs and found he was in his 80 with no way to cut it up. Wasn't the best, and did not necessarily properly measure the oil I was using, as had a McCoullgh and the 076, and a cheapy saw all with different mixture ratios. It heated and froze. It was done for the day. I managed to get it to unfreeze later with transmission fluid, but it looked like your cylinder. I checked the compression, and it looked like it had compression but just would not start or even attempt to fire, and numerous attempts troubleshooting.

The exhaust port looked like yours, and the rings were just as skewed as the piston you had in the picture. It tore up the inside. We opened it up and I did some research but My Mechanic buddy, was in no way that the cylinder was going to be repaired as that ring gouged enough out of the exhaust port that it was not going to be honed. I looked at it convinced I could, but hell he has far more experience than I. It was the original head which I still have. Still a bit stubborn.

I Replaced the piston, rings, and head. Was able to find all the gaskets this time, and had a shop rebuild the carbs for me, as after two tries purchasing on eBay the parts were wrong. I did barter for some slabs at the lawn shop and they rebuilt both and I bought a whole bunch of other stuff.

As a note both times the piston had to be filed where the wrist pin slides through. This may be the coating but he did it on the first one-two years ago without informing me but I saw him do it. I had not had as much experience as I do now with the number of saws that I now own. We did it on the second after discussion.

The Saw fired up and the power is amazing so I am pleased. I am not trying to sell it, with OEM or not. I just bought a 660 as another saw and the power on the 076 is far above it after the rebuild.

There may be differences in OEM, but 2 cycle engines are problematic at best, compared to the dependability of 4 cycle engines. In all the years of schooling, I had on engineering and Aircraft systems at Northrop University that was certainly drummed in.

These saws are older and made at the time of Lead gasoline which was used to stop the knocking and ensure assist ignition but was deadly. The gaskets are affected even today by the gas we buy today so there is a lot to take into account. What I do know is the power is great and I am sawing again.
 
So after re-reading all the comments and evaluating my needs for this saw, you guys have convinced me that I should go OEM. I enjoy the back and forth of good argument, but in the end my idea appears to be wrong.

I’ll tell you what I will do. I’ll sell him my OEM cylinder set that will fit his saw for $300. That’s probably less than I paid. And if he’ll send it to me I’ll fix it. All he will have to do is cover parts and shipping. How about that?

If this offer still stands, then that's what I will do. Please let me know.

Thank you guys very much for your comments and thoughts in this thread.
 
At this point it would be best for you to tear it down and fully rebuild it and work out all the kinks yourself by putting it back to the way it came from the factory . All the information needed is in this forum in threads, manuals, and experienced builders. Once you finish and get it running like its supposed to and you feel so inclined you should then see about a second smaller saw to reinvent the wheel on. This way you have at least one reliable saw on hand at all times.
Just remember heat exhausted out is heat not absorbed into the engine reducing its power output and increasing fuel requirements, fuel/oil mix using FD rated oil is needed in a 2 cycle chainsaw, proper air to fuel ratio adjustments keeps chainsaw piston crowns and skirts cool under load, when they get hot they swell in size then look like yours. It is easy to turn a 300 dollar saw into a 1400 dollar project but in the end it better run and cut great.
 
Well, I got started this past weekend. I'm taking the OEM route, BUT, since everyone here has me convinced to go OEM on all the parts - I decided to get a "practice saw" to build first. So, I got a Farmertec 880 to build.

Got the box, and it's a lot of parts. Have it almost complete, and I'm glad I went this route first before rebuilding the OEM MS 880.

So, a few questions for the experts:

1. Setting the coil:
I set the coil gap to flywheel at .027". I can't find the setting in the service manual, just this: "Push the ignition module back and slide the setting gauge (1) 1111 890 6400 between the arms of the ignition module and the flywheel magnet." What coil gap is correct?

2. Installing the carb:
The fuel line from the tank outlet to the carb seems to almost "kink" coming out of the nipple on the tank. The OEM saw looks the same to me. I have run the fuel line per the service manual, and the fuel line length is confirmed to be correct. Is this the "usual" outcome?

3. Carb linkage and throttle trigger
The carb linkages are assembled per the service manual. I have them facing the correct way, and the orientations are correct. The linkages are fully seated. My question is regarding the operation of the trigger in regard to testing the interim installation. I am not trying to start the saw, just wanting to make sure the linkages work properly and that I have assembled them correctly.

Here is the situation: I pull the trigger and the throttle opens, but will not fully close when I release the trigger (looking at page 37 in the Owners Instruction Manual on the topic - "Starting / Stopping the Engine") for reference to proper starting sequence.

I started from the the lowest setting (Full Choke) and move the lever to the positions as indicated on page 37. The trigger works, the choke releases. There is no binding of the linkages that I can see. Is this actually a problem (is this the high idle and "pops off" in actual operation) or is there something I need to rework in the assembly process of the linkages?

Thanks guys!
 
Well, I got started this past weekend. I'm taking the OEM route, BUT, since everyone here has me convinced to go OEM on all the parts - I decided to get a "practice saw" to build first. So, I got a Farmertec 880 to build.

Got the box, and it's a lot of parts. Have it almost complete, and I'm glad I went this route first before rebuilding the OEM MS 880.

So, a few questions for the experts:

1. Setting the coil:
I set the coil gap to flywheel at .027". I can't find the setting in the service manual, just this: "Push the ignition module back and slide the setting gauge (1) 1111 890 6400 between the arms of the ignition module and the flywheel magnet." What coil gap is correct?

2. Installing the carb:
The fuel line from the tank outlet to the carb seems to almost "kink" coming out of the nipple on the tank. The OEM saw looks the same to me. I have run the fuel line per the service manual, and the fuel line length is confirmed to be correct. Is this the "usual" outcome?

3. Carb linkage and throttle trigger
The carb linkages are assembled per the service manual. I have them facing the correct way, and the orientations are correct. The linkages are fully seated. My question is regarding the operation of the trigger in regard to testing the interim installation. Here is the situation: I pull the trigger and the throttle opens, but will not fully close when I release the trigger (looking at page 37 in the Owners Instruction Manual on the topic - "Starting / Stopping the Engine"). Picture is in the next post.

I started from the at the lowest setting (Full Choke) and move the lever to the positions as indicated on page 37. The trigger works, the choke releases. There is no binding of the linkages that I can see. However, the throttle plate doesn't move back to the idle position and stays partially open - even if I squeeze the trigger the plate stays partially open. Is it possible to move the throttle plate back to "closed" manually without disassembling the linkages?

Thanks guys!
For the coil, standard practice is to use a business card - manual calls for 0.010 inches, ±.002"
For the fuel line, after market fuel lines tend to not be as flexible as OEM, leading to kinkiness.
For sticky carb, I've run into several AM carbs in which the throttle plate is not centered properly in the venturi and binds on the edges. Try loosening the screw that holds the butterfly to the shaft and see if you can get the plate to close and seal properly.
 
Okay, Coil is set to .010, Fuel Line is as is, and the carb sticking I've found and fixed.

The linkage in the handle had a burr on the plastic (in the trigger assembly) that was stopping the throttle from returning to the idle position. All fixed up.

Thank you for the help!
 
Oh, and since I'm going OEM on the MS 880 I decided to go forward with the piston treatment (WS2) on this build (https://www.nanoslicklubricants.com/tungsten-disulfide-powder/).

I built two blasting cabinets, and used 1 micron aluminum oxide to rough up the piston skirts in the first cabinet, and then used the second blasting cabinet to spray the WS2 with cold, dry (desiccated) air. The finish and adhesion turned out very well and the surface was super slick. On a side note, I also got a Duke's moly coated piston (it's role right now is designated as a spare for this build). As a side note to the 1 micron versus 5 micron - I spoke with their engineers and they said 1 micron versus 5 didn't really matter as they chose the 5 micron size as it was more easily available.

I have a few items left to install and then the final pictures and then I have some trees to cut up. Stihl break-in calls for three tanks before full throttle off load, so I'm going to follow the same guidance since no instructions came with this kit.

In the past, I've always broken in saws by running them in the cut wide open and just gave them time to cool down between trees. My break-in was using the saw for bucking only, about 40 feet length at 18" intervals, short idle time between cuts, and final cool down time of five minutes before the next tree was bucked. Sound okay for this build?
 
8B72C24D-82E3-4307-85A2-E28F83D01A0A.jpeg

Ran it today on some small wood before I take it to the mountains. Very pleased with the performance.

Got some additional accessories coming in so I will update as they are added.

Now, time to continue with the disassembly of the OEM saw.
 
By the way, the saw weighed in at 23.5 pounds empty. The bar and chain came in at 9 pounds. With fuel and oil probably came in around 34 pounds total weight with the bar and chain installed. Pretty impressive power to weight ratio. I really liked the performance for the size.

I ran a ratio today of 32 to 1 with Red Armor. Idle was fine, and top end was good with the limited coil. For the carb tuning, I went with the "basic setting" procedure in the Stihl service manual on page 113. Ran perfect.
 

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