MS180 vs PS-401 vs G3800AVS

[SawTroll]

and the winner is?

Husky 339xp! :greenchainsaw:

 

[FATGUY]

Husky 339xp! :greenchainsaw:

Why Mr. Troll, are you living down to your name?

 

[excess650]

Brad,
I see a NE346XP has made its way into your collection. Have you run it?opcorn:

The Redmax sounds a bit disappointing :censored: at this point. I thought it might be at least competitive with the Dolmar PS-401 performance wise.

 

[scotclayshooter]

Husky 339xp! :greenchainsaw:

Is it a words ugliest saw competition?

 

[scotclayshooter]

Brad you need a 242XP in your collection. now just think wahat you could do with a saw that does 15,500 stock!

I bet it would outcut the other 3 wearing a semi chiselstock chain!

 

[blsnelling]

Brad you need a 242XP in your collection. now just think wahat you could do with a saw that does 15,500 stock!

I bet it would outcut the other 3 wearing a semi chiselstock chain!

I've been told the 238 is sweet as well.

Brad,
I see a NE346XP has made its way into your collection. Have you run it?opcorn:

Observant man. I won't have it until next week some time. It's brand new. I've been wanting to try one. The 260 may have to take a back seat for a while

 

[Taxmantoo]

I know how to solve this problem...Brad needs to buy a saw from every chainsaw company in this size category. I know he could sell them for more than he paid after they are snellerized (if that is a word lol). So Brad, it is time to buy an Echo (maybe Red could hook you up), an efco, a husky and a shinny.

I offered to send him a couple of 35cc Efcos, he said something about not ever wanting to work inside of a small bore clamshell cylinder again after doing the MS180.

 

[teacherman]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm..................MS200

Yup. I agree.

Way too much money for a tiny saw IMHO. I'll take something cheaper and hopefully make it perform like the MS200. Goofy looking saw anyway.

Whatever. It is a great looking and performing saw! Durable. too.

A man that spends the money that you do on saw's
is worried about the cost of an MS200. The cream of the crop
of small saw's. :greenchainsaw:.........to each his own

Uhh.....yeah....

I like the challenge. Anyone can buy a MS200.

That makes sense, but hopping a cheaper saw up to the MS200 level might be asking for a catastrophic premature failure.....

 

[blsnelling]

No more clam shell saws. That's a prerequisite for what I'm looking for here. I'm also not interested in a $500 off the shelf saw like a 200T or 339XP. I don't like the looks of a top handle saw retrofitted with a rear handle. BTW, my MS180 is holding up fine when in use. The added power hasn't broken it yet. It's only when wrenching on it that I've had problems.

 

[Cliff R]

Brad, appreciate the testing of the Redmax. I was hoping it would be stronger in stock form. I was strongly considering one of them when I stumbled on the Echo CS-370 NIB for under $150.

I'm going to bring along the little CS-370 to the GTG, pretty much done tinkering with it. It's not overly impressive anyplace, but does do quite well for a 36cc saw.

Just saw the Doc yesterday, still having a few minor complications from recent surgury, but I'm still planning on making the GTG. Looking forward to seeing some of these smaller saws in action.....Cliff

 

[blsnelling]

This Redmax will be ported by Saturday if all goes as planned.

 

[blsnelling]

The Redmax 3800 is ported and running. It's now turning 13,700. It's now 13.6% faster than stock. That's not a real impressive number IMHO. However, what that doesn't tell you is the difference in how it feels in the cut. It has a LOT more torque now. No way could you have lugged this saw like I do in the seconde cut here. Throttle response is much better as well. Keep in mind this saw is only one perhaps its 3rd tank.

You may have noticed that this chain is a little jumpy. It feels like the rakers are a little too low. Perhaps the chain is actually hurting its cut times. I'll try to take a look at it tomorrow.

Bottom line, it's now a respectable little saw with a MUCH better build quality than the MS180. The connecting rod looks like those found in pro Stihl saws.

 

[Erick]

Brad, sorry... I purposely didn't write you back on your PM, I wanted to see what you would come up with on this saw. Did you get any pic's for show and tell??? I'll tell you that saw is pretty tight out of the box and doesn't really come to life for about 15 tanks of fuel or so it really seems to take a lot to get it broke in right. You’ll probably pick up another 100 to 200 RPM’s when it loosens up.

What did you do with that exhaust port ... I told you it was a bit strange.

I don't know if you've gotten into many of these "other" saws but the 3800 has the little "jet hole" in the roof of the exhaust port like the old Efco 940 (BTW another little known screamer in waiting) and some others. A word of advice on that little "jet" a little’s good but a lots not necessarily better. Just go wide and if you go up keep that same port profile in the roof.

What did you make of that little hole??

Yes the bottom gives you some area to work in and lets you get the spent gases out.

Did you raise the exhaust port any??

What is your final compression reading???

Seems you could stand to give a little torque for some more R’s. :dunno:

There’s still a good bit to be gained in the intake side on that saw, I can price some parts for you Friday if you want.

A little timing never hurt anything on that saw either…. Say around 5* or so

I’d like to hear more about how you went at the build and what you thoughts were along the way.

 

[blsnelling]

Well you dirty rotten scoundrel!.

Porting this thing was like flirting with disaster with the port walls being so thin and no way to measure them. I did not take pictures. I know, I know. Let draw a mental picture for you guys. Have you ever seen an intake port with a little tongue looking thing sticking down in the center of the port to keep the rings tucked in? Well picture the opposite of that in the roof of the exhaust port. There is a groove in the roof of the exhaust port at the cylinder was, perhaps 1/8" deep that tapers out toward the exhaust flange. I have no idea what they intended that for. IT GONE, lol. I made the port shaped as close to normal as I dared without going through the port walls. I widened and squared the port as well. The sides of the port taper top to bottom, so I tried to square those up as well. Normally I would open up the port at the exhaust flange and then blend it into the new port shape at the cylinder wall so that everything is flat. You can't do that with this cylinder because the walls are so thin. I would guess that it's an effort in weight saving that there is very little meat around the ports. Fortunately, I did not go through everywhere.

All of the ports have very healthy chamfers. On the intake I widened it out to at least the edge of the chamfer and then put my typical bevel on it. I sqaured up the floor of the intake and lowered it a hair. Again, I could not completely bevel this out to the mouth of the intake.

Even with the compromises I had to make do to the casting design, I still felt like I was able to accomplish most of what I would normally do to the intake and exhaust on a saw. I did nothing to the transfers. The piston is not windowed so no work was done there either.

I'm thinking I may go back in and open the exhaust a little more. I haven't measured the area of the exhaust port and I think I'm still a little small with the exhaust opening.

Squish on the saw without any gasket at all is still a huge .028-.030. This is not a flat based jug and I don't have a mill, so that's where it will have to stay. Even with the exhaust port mods, cold compression is still a nice 168 PSI. Hot, right after the video was made, was 148 PSI. I was surprised to see that much difference. 10-15 is not unusual though.

Raise the exhaust to get some more RPMs? Hmm. I hate giving up torque in a work saw. There's got to be another bottle neck in the saw that wouldn't require me to shoot myself in the foot.

I checked the rackers on the chain and if anything, they're a little high. It's an Oregon non-safety chain, 3/8 lopro, .050 guage. I'd rather see a 14" bar on this saw as well. If I were to keep it, I'd order up a 14" Arbor Max bar and a loop of WoodlandPro 30LP chain for it. Until then, I think I'll take this chain and file it with the jig I normally use for my small chains. I just have a feeling this chain is hurting me back. Too bad it doesn't take a Stihl bar where I could run the chain off of my MS180 on it.

I'm not going to go as far as swapping carbs or anything significant like that. I just want to see what I can do with what's already there.

Timing you say? I hate not running a key. I tried that once and had it moving on me. But when I sheared the key on my MS180, I ran it without a key for a while with no problem. Is it a significant gain worth the effort?

What do you thing about increasing intake duration a little more by triming the skirt on the intake side a little?

 

[NHwoodshome]

I have a few saws and just bought a PS-401 due to the weight versus power. I have 4 bad discs in my back and 1 in my neck and swinging my 031AV or my Huskie 257 for hours gets my spine tingling. The first thing that happened was a HORRIBLE bog when starting from idle, but after 3 tanks of gas it totally went away. The first thing I did afdter using it was buy a new chain and remove the annoying Dolmar legal team safety chain. The saw then cut to my expectations. I am very surprised how well it handles and especially how it cuts, despite not being a screamer. As other have stated it has good torque and if kept sharp will handle most trees here in New Hampshire.

Annoying things are THE TINY FLIMSY OIL CAP! Also the oiler drips worse than my HOUND standing next to the dinner table, and she needs a drool bucket! My next purchase will be an aftermarket oiler. I can't even go through a tank of gas without having to stop to refill the oil. I also bought a rubber expanding lever operated plug to replace the oil cap which broke after 3 uses. It got so tight I broke it getting it loose, dealer gave me another but I put it in spare parts for now. I feel for the money ( I paid $260.00 ) its one heck of a saw. I was thinking of getting a 420 but the nearest one was 60 miles away, the 401 is lighter, and I try to deal locally when possible. I would most certainly make the same purchase today in a saw, the PS401 has performed beyond what I thought it would.

This actually saved my butt during our recent ice storm. We lost power for 11 days and there wasn't a generator to be found within 150-200 miles if THAT on the first day! I called the guy I deal with as I have bought snowblowers, mowers and saws from him, and he had a spare new unit for himself at the shop. He said since I was such a good customer he would sell it too me. I had to cut my way to his shop 21 miles away, it took 4 hours and numerous downed trees to get there. I was there 15 minutes and he had 9 calls for generators and he regretfully had to tell people he had none. Dealing with a local dealer and being a loyal customer paid off, where as box stores could care less.

 

[Erick]

Brad, no need for a carb swap. I don't think they put a lot of thought into tuning the intake length... I think they just made it fit.

A V-stack/K&N set up was good for about 900-1000 RPM on the two I built. It doesn't seem like it would be worth it to fool with it because the air filter is pretty respectable on that saw and if you remove the filter altogether you don't gain anything which usually means your getting most of what you can on the intake side. Like I said though I think the longer intake runner of the V-stack set up is what made the improvements.

The timing is not a huge improvement but it is another piece of the pie, and as you spin it faster it becomes more of a gain.

If you get rid of that last .010 on the base you will have what your looking for on intake duration and it will let you raise the exhaust a little more for more duration there also. It will push the torque band up a little higher as well to carry the RPM's in the wood...... Where there's a will there's a way

That saw can go 15,000 - 15,5000 and still hold a pretty good torque band for its size.

 

[Cliff R]

Brad, nice improvement(s). I haven't ported our CS-370 as of yet, but did remove the carb and muffler for intake and muffler mods. The ports on the jug are also very odd shapes, the exhaust being almost like a "tear drop".

I've actually got it working quite well as is. I timed it yesterday in a 13" peice of hard cherry, 21 seconds. It pulls very well in the mid-range, but is not really all that high rpm oriented. I'm sure some porting would improve that some. It free revs easily to 13,500, but pulls down quickly in the cut, and grunts along pretty good for a 36cc saw with most of the chain buried.....Cliff

 

[buck futter]

you need to work on your carb to increase throttle response.
Lets see a picture of the inside of the jug you may want to widen the transfers a little

the exhaust port is shaped like that for two possible reasons.

it is an automatic compression release of sorts, this was done on some old partners and also I think there is a stihl blower that does it too. it maybe bg55, I'm not sure of the model.

or a little more exhaust duration without compromising the compression.

David

 

[blsnelling]

you need to work on your carb to increase throttle response.

I agree. It's a lot better than it was. I'm hoping a little more breakin will help loose it up a little too.

If you get rid of that last .010 on the base you will have what your looking for on intake duration and it will let you raise the exhaust a little more for more duration there also. It will push the torque band up a little higher as well to carry the RPM's in the wood...... Where there's a will there's a way

I'm scared to raise the exhaust any more with out finding a saw to measure the thickness of the port wall. Plus I don't have a mill to do the work to the cylinder.

I have a few saws and just bought a PS-401 due to the weight versus power. The first thing that happened was a HORRIBLE bog when starting from idle, but after 3 tanks of gas it totally went away.

No need to put up with that bog. You need to remove the limiter tabs on the carb. It's likely still lean even though it's not doing it now. Your throttle response should greatly improve.

 

[Four Paws]

When are you going to try the 377 Shindaiwa?