MS261 vs 034 AV Super for First Saw?

[Philbo]

Came home with the 044. The 361 was torn down a little bit (for cleaning) so I didn't bother with waiting around to run it.

044 cranked right up in 2 or 3 pulls (cold.) Seemed to run strong, but there was no wood around to test it. The fellow I bought it from is an ex-logger, and happily chatted my ears off for nearly an hour about the joys of running an 044. He sharpened the chain for me. Ran over all the features of the saw with me. If it proves itself, I'll be a happy camper with a venerable 70cc saw, for a little more than 1/2 the price of a new 261.

Came with 20" bar and chain. I'll play with that for a while in some wood, and if I get into bigger stuff I'll put a 24" on it and pick up a 50cc saw w/ a 16". Good plan?

One thing I'm curious about it how to tune the carb correctly. Altitude here is ~3500 feet + Where I bought it, altitude was probably more like 1000ft? Not sure really. He said to adjust the High a little richer to compensate for the higher altitude. Good idea? How much adjustment do I want, and how do I know what's optimal? Maybe someone can point me to a good tutorial?

Also, when I cranked it up the chain was spinning during idle, but i didn't really let the saw fully warm up. Is the idle perhaps too high, or does that stop when the saw warms up?

Now I just need to get some safety gear and find some WOOD!

Thanks everyone for the advice! Much appreciated!

Oh yeah...I'll post pics in a couple of days. My better half has the camera for the weekend.

 

[kr5258]

Maybe someone can point me to a good tutorial?

Also, when I cranked it up the chain was spinning during idle, but i didn't really let the saw fully warm up. Is the idle perhaps too high, or does that stop when the saw warms up?

Tutorial: Saw Carb Tuning

Chain spinning at idle: adjust carb or weak clutch springs. Clutch shoe holes may also be worn where the springs hook.

 

[Tom M.]

He said to adjust the High a little richer to compensate for the higher altitude. Good idea?

No way, a logger should know better. Lean it out at higher elevation. Thinner air at elevation means saw gets less air, making it run rich.

 

[jus2fat]

Congrats on your purchase of the 044...a legend for reliability and quality construction..!!

Also this for carb tuning:

Chainsawr Adjustment and Tuning of a Chainsaw Carburetor

J2F

 

[Philbo]

No way, a logger should know better. Lean it out at higher elevation. Thinner air at elevation means saw gets less air, making it run rich.

Thank you, sir! Seller must have been confusing himself. I suggested that and he told me the opposite. He was an older fellow that certainly has seen better days with his health.

Also, thanks for the other links. Very helpful. Is it a good idea to go ahead and get a digital tach for this? Are the cheap ones any good?

Lots of little things at first to purchase/borrow to run a saw!

 

[Tom M.]

Well the ol guy might not know rich from lean, and just turned the screws until it sounded right.

 

[jus2fat]

Is it a good idea to go ahead and get a digital tach for this? Are the cheap ones any good?

This is the one I recommend...and a lot of folks on this site use it...

FAST-TACH Handheld Digital Tachometer - [DTI FT100] - $85.00 at Edge & Engine

Can be bought from Edge and Engine...a site sponsor.

J2F

 

[walexa07]

We need pics!

If you have any question regarding tuning, I would take it to your local dealer and see if he will tune it to your elevation.

Waylan

 

[Trx250r180]

great pick on the 044 ,they are one of my favorites ,and i think only about a pound heavier than the 034 you were looking at

 

[SawTroll]

great pick on the 044 ,they are one of my favorites ,and i think only about a pound heavier than the 034 you were looking at

Depends on how old it is, as do the power rating.

 

[Trx250r180]

Depends on how old it is, as do the power rating.

i think my ms440 lost about 1/2 a pound when it got sent to mastermind ........

 

[Philbo]

We need pics!

If you have any question regarding tuning, I would take it to your local dealer and see if he will tune it to your elevation.

Waylan

Stopped by the dealer on the way home actually, just to ask what they charged to tune a carb. He said it's hard to say up front, but ballpark $40. Seems high to me to do something that should take someone who knows what they're doing less than 15 minutes...but I don't know.

At the same time, my experience here is pretty limited with carb tuning, so it might be my safest option.

Just a simple question that I haven't seen explicitly mentioned anywhere from reading yet: Am I correct to assume that righty-tighty, lefty-loosey (ie, right= screw turning in= less air and left= screw turning out=more air) applies here?

Also, what is the best approach to start with if the current idle has the chain going? Doesn't seem safe to me to try and adjust the idle screw by myself while the saw is running (chain too), but adjusting when the saw is off is a bit of a shot in the dark and lots of cranking, idle-ing, turning off, turning again, etc...Is there a good reference point to start from here, like stock settings or anything like that (ie: start all the way closed then go "x" amount of turns out) ?

THANKS!

 

[walexa07]

$40 is a ripoff IMO. I would think a good dealer would adjust the carb tune for little or nothing.

The screws are fuel screws, not air screws: CW is less fuel, CCW is more fuel.

First off you need to understand/learn what it means for a 2-stroke to "4-stroke". It's a burble sound on the top end, out of wood.

Search and read on the forum, watch youtube videos of tuning saw, listen to the madsens clip, etc. and it will give you an idea of where to go.

So far as your saw goes, if the chain is moving, turn the idle (not same as L) screw out until chain stops spinning. If it won't idle down that low without dying you probably need clutch springs as a minimum.

Waylan

 

[dancan]

5 pages on the original post from a new guy , no dissin' and no rep sent ? Trolls are getting more respect .
Philbo , you best be postin' pics of that new to you saw LOL
Just the same I'll send you a hit from Canada .







Psst , call the guy to find out when he's got that 361 to have a look at that one (Fxxx the 50cc 2 saw plan) LOL

 

[StihlyinEly]

Great to hear you picked up the 044! Solid dog with a loud bark and big teeth!

You've gotten good advice on tuning, etc. That dealer should tune it for very little money. Takes 5 minutes max to tune a properly working carb on a saw with good fuel and impulse lines. It's only when there are problems that the time starts to add up. And he should be looking to the future. If he treats you well from the start, you'll be coming back a lot for things like files, protective equipment and mix oil. $40 minimum for tuning a carb is usury.

If the chain still spins when the idle is turned down, feel free to post a pic of the clutch assembly and ask for advice. That's what AS is all about, and you'll be wrenchin on saws in no time with the assistance of these fine folks. Why pay a shop when you can do it yourself? For a lot of folks on here, fixing and improving saws is part of the fun of owning and running them.

That saw will run a 25 inch bar no problem. You have a 20 already, so you can pick up a 16 and a 25, and then when you get that 50cc Stihl, you can run the 16 on it and use the 20 and 25 on the 044. All my Stihls up to and including the 660 run the same pitch and gauge bars and chain (3/8 and .050). This makes things tremendously easy when it comes to swapping out bars and chains as needed, and for sharpening, since I only need one file size.

Have fun, and take care out there!

P.S. -- You should be able to pick up an excellent lightly used 026 for $200 or under. Same era as your 044.

 

[Philbo]

Ahha! Screws are for fuel, not air! Thanks Waylan. This why I like this site. Not a lot of bull, good info. Learn something new everyday. One day I'll be wrenching on saws comfortably thanks to this site! I knew that $40 was high for a simple carb tuning. I think that this particular fellow at the parts desk is taking advantage of the fact that I'm relatively new to saws. Just makes me want to do it myself...

So in my case, assuming the saw was properly tuned before hand, I would likely need to go a bit leaner, meaning a clockwise turn. Thank a bunch for clarifying that. I didn't have as much time this afternoon to play with it as I would have liked. I'm sure given more un-interrupted time I will figure out the relatively simple workings of a carb; sometimes life gets in the way...

Not sure quite what dancan's post means, but I'll post pics hopefully tomorrow or Monday when I get my digital camera back.

In the meantime, more reading about carb tuning and listening to audio clips of lean and rich adjustments trying to find that sweet spot! Thanks again everyone who has contributed.:msp_thumbup:

 

[Mad Professor]

Play with the low first. You will need to go back and forth between idle and low screw. You need a happy medium between stalling (rich) and racing (lean/chain spinning). A poorly adjusted low can be compensated with the idle screw, but thats not the right way to do things. If chain spins when carb is right you need to inspect your clutch parts.

Then go to high, have a clean air filter, sharp chain and a big piece of wood. Initial adjustment is just a bit too rich out of the cut so it "misses" at WOT and does not rev out at WOT (be careful here if it is too lean to start with). Then go into a big cut, if it cleans up in the cut you are very close. If it still "misses" lean out slowly until it cleans up in the cut.

If throttling up at this point causes a bog, fatten up (richen) the low a bit, may have to play with idle again.

Now you are ready to fine tune the high in big wood, a fine line between bogging (rich) and ripping (just right). Check you plug after a 1/2 tank of fuel when you think things are right

P.S. I don't have a tach, but my saws run good:msp_biggrin:

 

[walexa07]

Whatever you do, just be careful leaning out the high side. Too lean and you will seize the engine. If you get a handle on the 4-stroke sound at wide open throttle, out of the cut, you should be safe. I have heard of a seize from having the low side set too lean but I think high side seizes are much more common.

Waylan

 

[Philbo]

Alright, here's some pics finally! I know she's not the prettiest one, but I think she'll get the job done once I get the carb tuned right.

I'll pull the muffler later on and snap some shots. What do I need to pull the spark plug, just the right sized socket?

 

[nmurph]

Congrats...that doesn't look too bad. All Stihls of that age will have a discolored tank.