You sure that isn't "power band"?
Ms360
- Thread starter BIGBORE577
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2002
- Messages
- 6,083
- Reaction score
- 631
WRW said:
Yep!
When a saw is referred to as having a "wide powerband" that means that the most useful power that the saw has is over a wide rpm range....say...8,000 to 12'000 rpm.
A "narrow powerband" would be something like 9,000 to 10,000 rpm. Not a very forgiving saw IMO!!!
In my mind "torque" is twisting effort". Put more easily in comparing 2 saws.......the one with the better torque will keep on cutting when you are pushing hard on the saw in the cut!
Last edited:
OK, as a qualifier, I should have mentioned that the saws I used both had 18" bars working in oaks. It could be that 24" bars might have shown some difference...but not for me. When that size bar becomes necessary I'll move up to a 70cc+ saw.
fishhuntcutwood
Full wraps and long bars!!!!!!!!!
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2005
- Messages
- 3,601
- Reaction score
- 395
rahtreelimbs said:
And in my mind, torque is relative to power band in that a saw with more torque will still make power over a wider range of rpms....said wider power band, and more useable ranges to work in.
SawTroll
Information Collector
WRW said:
.. and a wider useful powerband, probably because of the 4-port cylinder design, like the Husky xps and the better Dolmars....
The 361 with a 15-16" bar is an extremely nimble saw for its performance.....
Last edited:
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
I've used many 036/360... and moved on to the 361 as soon as it came out - much faster revving, wider power band, slightly better antivibe, etc, etc.. Yes, the quad porting makes it quite different to the 036 design - and unique to the stihl line-up. Muffler mod the 361 though.. it really is strangled when stock. A "good source" rumor I heard just before the 361 came out was that Stihl had to dumb it down to stop it competing with the 440... The first internal test versions (non-epa) were a hair over 5hp....
There's another qualifier I forgot to mention...both saws were,and still are, stock. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but when both saws have the same HP rating at the same rpm, doesn't the torque value at that rpm have to be the same for both saws? We're not talking wider power bands here, just the rating at that rpm.
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
yes
And if both saws are kept at that value while cutting, keeping in mind that leaning on either saw while in the cut will slow the chain speed and ultimately the cut time or stop the chain altogether...which should cut faster? FHCW said something about the happy part of the power band.
16gauge
ArboristSite Operative
BIGBORE577 said:
Nice post Jay, Stihl vs. Stihl.
I have both the MS360 and MS361. Both are great saws and I can say that the 360 is very dependable and eats wood with a sharp chain. MS 361 is in another catagory as far as feel, balance, performance, grins, etc. Never timed anything, but, 361 is special.
fishhuntcutwood
Full wraps and long bars!!!!!!!!!
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2005
- Messages
- 3,601
- Reaction score
- 395
WRW said:
I'll explain this as I understand it, but bear in mind I'm a turbine theory guy, not a two-stroke theory guy.
Yes, if both saws are kept at the same value, producing the same power and speed. Both are equal or comparable or whatever. But if you lean on each, and their rpms in the cut falls from say, (and I'm just using big ballpark numbers here) 9k to 7k. The 361 with it's "wider" power band will still be making good power and torque down at 7k and cutting wood, whereas the 360 is gonna bog on you and fall out of power. The 360 would be "happy" at maybe 8k-9.5k, and the 361 would be "happy" and making power from 7k-10k. Now those are wide ranges, but it's just to illustrate the "wider" power band. So when I say a saw is more nimble or is more user friendly or has a wider power band, I mean to say that you can lean on it if necessary, you can carry a wider range of bar lengths, different chain configurations, etc. and it'll still cut for you, not having to be in it's narrow little range of happiness.
I'm not disagreeing with anyone about the power band differences between the two saws. In softer woods, using a longer than 18" bar, possibly using a chain configuration other than full comp, especially with modifications, the 361 may shine...I'll probably never get the chance to find out. I do know, however, that on harder woods, with 18" bars, full comp chain, and no modifications, they are too close to call either a superior saw (performance wise).
SawTroll
Information Collector
How well the saw keeps the torque up at higher than max power rpms is also important, and different between the 360 and 361, I believe.
It is important when cutting smaller wood, as in limbing.
As Andy mentioned, accelleration is also different, and most important for such applications.
It is important when cutting smaller wood, as in limbing.
As Andy mentioned, accelleration is also different, and most important for such applications.
Acceleration...hmmm. What are we talking about here...maybe 1/16 second difference to go from idle to carb limited maximum rpm? So you hit the throttle 1/16 sec. sooner with the slower saw.
I don't think torque at greater rpm than the power band is as important as you make it sound. The mass of the chain in motion alone can cut through a 1" limb (let off the throttle just before starting the cut).
I don't think torque at greater rpm than the power band is as important as you make it sound. The mass of the chain in motion alone can cut through a 1" limb (let off the throttle just before starting the cut).
Lakeside53 said:
I'm surprised no one asked...can your "good source" advise whether it was just the muffler that was changed, or were there other modifications?
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2002
- Messages
- 6,083
- Reaction score
- 631
Preference on saws is largely just that............personal preference............or should I say personal perception!!!
Some saws like the Dolmar 5100S are just flat out great........from any opinion that I have read on here!
I owned several 036's over the years and none of them impressed me!
The 361 did the exact opposite.
Some saws like the Dolmar 5100S are just flat out great........from any opinion that I have read on here!
I owned several 036's over the years and none of them impressed me!
The 361 did the exact opposite.
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
WRW said:
Sure the muffler was changed... that's most of the added "EPA part"... I wasn't able to get any other detailed info but... I suspect the cylinder wasn't.. It was computer modeled to produce low emissions/decent power, but exceeded their estimates. It is the lowest emission design of stihl's conventional 2 cycle line (not stratocharged).
Heck, a muffler mod alone sure makes a difference (but I have no way to really measure the HP etc). It's not a stretch think I'm at 5hp, but maybe it's just wishful thinking..
14% from a muffler mod...whuff!
