MSA300+AP500s=Frustration & less productivity.

[SCMtnHaul]

Well, finally found a true turd of an offering from Stihl. If a better battery were available I probably wouldn't be writing this but right now an AP500s battery is required for use with the MSA300 so the combo is what sucks. The "Light" bar that comes with the saw may be a POS too. The chain does seem more prone to derailing and while attempting to flush cut a tan oak stump the oil hole clogged 3 times in 5 minutes, and I can't even remember the last time that happened on any other saw I've used. But the real problem is that if you actually use the full capacity of the battery and drain it to the point where the saw will no longer move the chain it then takes about 90 minutes to recharge the battery, but at high speed the batter drains in about 20 minutes. The high draw of the MSA300 creates so much heat in the AP500s battery that it reliably takes 45 minutes to cool off enough to even start charging, and then about 45-50 minutes on the fast charger before full again. And ambient temps were in the low to mid 70s, battery was on the charger inside a barn. This is so far beyond unacceptable I have difficulty remaining calm. If this saw were in the homeowner series then fine but in no way does the MSA300 belong in the pro series of tools. Stihl absolutely screwed the pooch and the customer on this one, and I didn't even pay close to full price yet I'm still hopping mad. So, 20-30 minutes of runtime and at least 90 minutes of cool-down and charge time. What a joke. The battery top handle, MSA220 TC, does not seem to have this problem and I love using it. The little MSA 220 CB works fine for light duty. MSA300 though is anti-productivity and seems more like a good prototype but far from ready for use in the real world. Caveat emptor!

 

[HumBurner]

The chain is prone to derailing on the 540i saw as well, especially as one angles the cuts steeper and steeper, and especially while brushing/limbing.

 

[snobdds]

I have been saying this for years, current battery technology will not be the ground breaking tech to usher out gas. Current battery tech is not there.

It will take something better for a wholesale replacement of gas powered outdoor power equipment. Now that is not to say battery powered tools don't have a role to play and are actually very good in hand held tools like drivers, saws and other low amp draw cordless tools.

 

[SCMtnHaul]

I have been saying this for years, current battery technology will not be the ground breaking tech to usher out gas. Current battery tech is not there.

It will take something better for a wholesale replacement of gas powered outdoor power equipment. Now that is not to say battery powered tools don't have a role to play and are actually very good in hand held tools like drivers, saws and other low amp draw cordless tools.

Yeah, battery tech is still likely in its "infancy" stage--too heavy and bulky for many applications. But I do think that for smaller applications the technology is more than adequate in many instances. The MSA300 is the only battery tool I've ever used that was obviously inadequate and worse than a rancid warmed over turd in a microwave. I have a hard time believing that the battery powered log splitters are worth a sheet or the ride-on mowers that are battery powered. This is the only time I've ever chosen to be an early adopter of new tech and I guess my hope is that with enough support there will be useful progress in the battery department. Ultimately, nothing moves an inch in this country if there isn't money to be made. The kind of battery tech we need seems to have a relatively short development period behind it. I grew up helping out on the jobsite and can still remember using those early Makita drills with the long and heavy ni-cad batteries, and then when the 14.4 volt series was released along with, I think, Makita's first impact driver it was such a night and day difference. Of course those early attempts all seem like waste when looking at them in the rearview mirror but trial and error is an inevitable part of evolution. Still sucks when you end up owning an error. Anybody want to buy a saw?

 

[oldbuzzard]

I own/run lots of saws (50?) including Husky and Stihl battery saws. The MSA300 is a turd. It is way over priced, too heavy, and sucks the battery. I should have returned mine to the dealer when I had a chance. The Husky 540 series and Stihl MSA220 are ok but you pay around $1k for a kit with only one battery. The Husky 350i Power Axe is absolutely a great saw with full up price around $350 if you look around. I own four and have given six more to various volunteer groups. I wold say it could replace any stock 45cc saw and is much easier to actually work with - no messing with gas, no finicky to start, etc. But I think this is about the limit of battery tech right now.

 

[SCMtnHaul]

I own/run lots of saws (50?) including Husky and Stihl battery saws. The MSA300 is a turd. It is way over priced, too heavy, and sucks the battery. I should have returned mine to the dealer when I had a chance. The Husky 540 series and Stihl MSA220 are ok but you pay around $1k for a kit with only one battery. The Husky 350i Power Axe is absolutely a great saw with full up price around $350 if you look around. I own four and have given six more to various volunteer groups. I wold say it could replace any stock 45cc saw and is much easier to actually work with - no messing with gas, no finicky to start, etc. But I think this is about the limit of battery tech right now.

50 saws? Thankfully my lack of space prevents me from acquiring more saws/emptying my wallet. What kind of approximate run time do you get from the Husky 350i? Agreed that the MSA300 is extraordinarily overpriced for what it is--fortunately the state of CA had a program I qualified for and I only paid about 35% of retail or I never would have taken a chance on it. There are a handful of situations where I may find a use for the saw like trail maintenance at a local ecological preserve where Fish & Game gets uppity about gas powered anything, or maybe the local volunteer fire dept. can use it.

 

[HumBurner]

50 saws? Thankfully my lack of space prevents me from acquiring more saws/emptying my wallet. What kind of approximate run time do you get from the Husky 350i? Agreed that the MSA300 is extraordinarily overpriced for what it is--fortunately the state of CA had a program I qualified for and I only paid about 35% of retail or I never would have taken a chance on it. There are a handful of situations where I may find a use for the saw like trail maintenance at a local ecological preserve where Fish & Game gets uppity about gas powered anything, or maybe the local volunteer fire dept. can use it.

Do you have a name of the program you purchased it under? I've looked a couple times and couldn't find anything relating to tax-breaks, refunds, or grants. I've partially committed to battery for the near future, but still have some purchases to make in the next 6-12 months.

Thanks

 

[Breckinridge Elkins]

I have been saying this for years, current battery technology will not be the ground breaking tech to usher out gas. Current battery tech is not there.

It will take something better for a wholesale replacement of gas powered outdoor power equipment. Now that is not to say battery powered tools don't have a role to play and are actually very good in hand held tools like drivers, saws and other low amp draw cordless tools.

I somewhat disagree. The current battery tech is pretty good. I would say the best applications for it are smaller tools, though. Maybe the equivalent of a 40cc saw. I think this would still be true even if we dropped all the subsidies, regulations, propaganda, etc. The battery tools have a niche.
It sounds like the OP is describing some engineering failures that aren't directly the battery's fault. A cheap bar that wont retain or oil the chain has nothing to do with battery vs gas. Looking at a picture of the saw I am thinking it should have a ring of vents around the battery with maybe a 2" fan blowing underneath it. It's tempting to build a battery tool that looks exactly like the gas version but maybe that limits our thinking. Maybe the battery needs to be fully exposed to stay cool. Maybe it needs two batteries to slow the discharge rate.
I am not sure that batteries can get a whole lot better in the near future. this might be a technology that has essentially plateaued for the next several years. The two technologies we will see first will probably be solid state lithium, which should charge faster, and sodium ion batteries which will actually be less energy dense but a lot cheaper to make. Refinements, not revolutions in technology.

 

[snobdds]

I somewhat disagree. The current battery tech is pretty good. I would say the best applications for it are smaller tools, though. Maybe the equivalent of a 40cc saw. I think this would still be true even if we dropped all the subsidies, regulations, propaganda, etc. The battery tools have a niche.
It sounds like the OP is describing some engineering failures that aren't directly the battery's fault. A cheap bar that wont retain or oil the chain has nothing to do with battery vs gas. Looking at a picture of the saw I am thinking it should have a ring of vents around the battery with maybe a 2" fan blowing underneath it. It's tempting to build a battery tool that looks exactly like the gas version but maybe that limits our thinking. Maybe the battery needs to be fully exposed to stay cool. Maybe it needs two batteries to slow the discharge rate.
I am not sure that batteries can get a whole lot better in the near future. this might be a technology that has essentially plateaued for the next several years. The two technologies we will see first will probably be solid state lithium, which should charge faster, and sodium ion batteries which will actually be less energy dense but a lot cheaper to make. Refinements, not revolutions in technology.

The thermal run away in current high draw amp batteries is a problem that affects everyone from Tesla to Stihl. The OP even had it... Tesla gets around it with cooling features, smaller tools can't do that and therefore become useless until the thermal range of the battery is restored to normal.

If something overheats in normal operation...that tech will not last in the long run.

 

[Franny K]

I probably wouldn't be writing this but right now an AP500s battery is required for use with the MSA300 so the combo is what sucks. The "Light" bar that comes with the saw may be a POS too

There is no back pack battery?

Calling a genuine Stihl bar POS and using the word turd makes me think you are over dramatizing things.

It sounds like the tool and the battery charger you have don't blow sufficient cooling air through the battery. Using this stuff hard and charging it right away and hoping to use it again right away is sort an issue.

Does it take the 3003 or 3005 bars and Stihl mini spline rims?

 

[altatim]

Never touched a Stihl or Husky battery saw but I have the Milwaukee one (I already have dozens of batteries including some 12Ah) and I have found it to be significantly slower than a gas saw but very reliable and seems to last a long time on a single (12Ah) battery. Batteries don't overheat and charge in about 40min on the fast charger. I find with two batteries I can almost work constant with maybe a 2 min break in between batteries. Even in sub zero temps it works great. Definitely doesn't feel like a 70cc saw lol but it works and always starts

 

[oldbuzzard]

50 saws? Thankfully my lack of space prevents me from acquiring more saws/emptying my wallet. What kind of approximate run time do you get from the Husky 350i? Agreed that the MSA300 is extraordinarily overpriced for what it is--fortunately the state of CA had a program I qualified for and I only paid about 35% of retail or I never would have taken a chance on it. There are a handful of situations where I may find a use for the saw like trail maintenance at a local ecological preserve where Fish & Game gets uppity about gas powered anything, or maybe the local volunteer fire dept. can use it.

I have a lot of saws because I buy dead ones off eBay - usually Husky or Stihl 50/60cc - rebuild them, then give them away to non-profits and volunteers.
RE battery run time it depends on the “size” battery. Husky batteries begin with BLi followed by two or three digit number. A BLi10 is the lowest AH, the BLi300 is the highest. The 350i Power Axe comes with a BLi30. It is hard to give you an estimate of how long they last at any one type of work. If we are doing invasive species removal, two BLi30s will pretty much last all day. Two of us cleared a mile of blowdowns on trail last week and my partner just used one battery and it wasn’t dead at the end. I was running a gas saw. Using a combo of saws on a job seems to work well, gas for bigger stuff, battery for smaller, but the Power Axe is comfortable cutting 14-16” logs.

 

[Breckinridge Elkins]

The thermal run away in current high draw amp batteries is a problem that affects everyone from Tesla to Stihl. The OP even had it...

Thermal runaway is when they actually catch fire, not simply overheat. With good quality batteries it's usually the result of a drop or impact damaging at least one cell inside.

 

[SCMtnHaul]

There is no back pack battery?

Calling a genuine Stihl bar POS and using the word turd makes me think you are over dramatizing things.

It sounds like the tool and the battery charger you have don't blow sufficient cooling air through the battery. Using this stuff hard and charging it right away and hoping to use it again right away is sort an issue.

Does it take the 3003 or 3005 bars and Stihl mini spline rims?

The backpack battery is far from convenient and unless I'm mistaken Stihl specifically recommends NOT using it with their saws. The cord to tool connection is cumbersome and frequently gets in the way when used with other tools, but still a useful item to have even with its limitations. Any company can produce a POS, even Stihl, and their new "Light" bars are not the same as their high-end lightweight bars. Others have noticed the chain seems to derail more easily with the new Light bars but perhaps it's coincidence. Yes the tool and charger do not blow adequate air across the battery, but the heat issue seems to be inherent in the new AP500s batteries. A couple days ago I was using the battery top handle saw from Stihl, 220TC I think, and over the course of 3 hours I drained the battery down to one bar remaining and even with that gradual draining it still took 45 minutes for the battery to cool enough to being charging. The MSA300 would be a much better experience if Stihl had designed a proper battery for it but since the user is limited to only the AP500s the resulting performance from that combo is pitiful. I'm sure I could get longer run times by using the saw on Eco-Mode but cutting slower in order to make a battery last is unacceptable except in occasional circumstances like "I have two more cuts to make and my batter is nearly dead--I'll use Eco-Mode to try and finish."

With a much better battery the MSA300 might be a joy to use but the most generous assessment I can make is that the saw has been severely handicapped by a rather pathetic battery. If I can't sell the saw and recover my money I'll likely just leave it in the truck for occasional or unexpected uses because I won't be the least bit upset if someone steals it--now it's their problem!

 

[farmguywithasaw]

I hear the echo battery saws are not to bad haven’t tried one myself

 

[snobdds]

Thermal runaway is when they actually catch fire, not simply overheat. With good quality batteries it's usually the result of a drop or impact damaging at least one cell inside.

Maybe we're getting our terms mixed up but if a battery shuts down due to heat, it's to prevent thermal run away.

Every battery generates heat, both on the charging side and the discharge side. There is no case where charging or discharging doesn't create heat. That is just physics and energy properties. How manufactures manage that heat is where things come into play.

I just don't think manufactures build any type of duty cycle into hand held battery stuff. Adding cooling adds weight and couple that with a heavy battery...well that is going backwards in the race to be lighter.

Physics creates no free lunches and battery tools are still subject to physic and those pesky laws...

 

[Breckinridge Elkins]

Maybe we're getting our terms mixed up but if a battery shuts down due to heat, it's to prevent thermal run away.

Well, I was not mixed up but I'm glad you came around.

 

[OM617YOTA]

Trimming with a lot of idle time in between, battery electric is fantastic. My battery saw is my most used saw, by far.

Stand up and buck, burning through round after round after round for a long time, battery electric ain't there yet.

Use the right tool for the job.