Muriatic acid uses.

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doc874

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I know! This has been talked about before! I must have been asleep or out choppin wood. Anyway what i want to know is, is muriatic acid good on a cylinder for removing alumminum from a burnt piston stuck to it or is some other product better. The cylinder i'm talking about is a Stihl cylinder off a chainsaw. Thanks.

Doc
 
Muratic acid will work, as long as the nikasil isn't groved into the aluminum. If it is, the acid will eat the aluminum below the nikasil lining. Just be carefull if you get any acid into the ports (such as the exh port where a lot of saws are scored). It will eat the inside of the port too.

Stihl cylinders are pretty hard and seem to have a better coating than other cylinders I've seen.

Emery cloth works pretty well to get rid of the big rough stuff. A ball hone is about the best thing to use after a cylinder cleanup, but if one is not available to you, clean the cylinder good with the acid and a fine sandpaper/emery cloth and you should be good to go.
 
muriatic acid

Thank you for the reply. I wiil try this and if its groved into the nickisil i will buy a new cylinder kit.

Doc
 
Definitely hone it after you use acid, even it it's just to clean it up to a constant finish so you can see the surface clearly. If you don't use a ball hone, you do need to simulate a very fine 45 degree crosshatch.
 
hone & crosshatch

Lakeside-

Another dumb question from me.... what is meant by "honing the cylinder"? What type of tool is used to do this? Do I have to have metal working mill/lathe etc? Or is there something I can do by hand or with a handheld drill etc. I rebuilt a car one time (with lots of help) and we touched up the cylinders with a three armed attachement that went into a hand drill. Each arm had a vertical grinding stone on it so you could sort of take off a small layer of the cylinder wall and make it smooth again. Is this what you mean?

Also, any chance you have a picture of the crosshatching and how you could recreate that on a cylinder?
 
The device you talk about is a typical old-style hone that is used in a hand-held drill. A ball hone (Search AS for "ball hone") will much more easily leave the correct cross hatch. Cross hatch is achieved by the correct vertical motion for a given rotational speed. I just move it in and out at about 1/2 second rate (fast) while the drill is running at about 600-800rpm. Seems to work, but without the right tools it's more art than science...
 
ball hone

Lakeside. Many thanks for the info about the hone. I did a search like you suggested and ended up with some links to Flexhone's web site. Now I know how effective a flexhone can be for my jet's landing gear or of course my chainsaw. :) By the way, here's a cylinder I have. It doesn't seem to have any aluminum deposits left on it as I removed those with toilet bowl cleaner (no muratic acid available at the time). But there's still visible vertical scoring as you can sort of see. Is this cylinder a lost cause, or do you think honing and a new piston/rings will bring it back to life? By the way, here's s dumb question. If the cylinder is in good shape you have rings that seat well to it, why does it matter if the piston itself has some scoring or is not perfectly smooth? I always see advice suggesting that you can revive a scored saw by removing the aluminum from they cylinder, and getting new rings and a piston. But why not skip the piston and just do the other stuff. Thanks!
 
It doesn't look great... Of more concern is what the cylinder looks like around the exhaust in a line above the transfer ports (compression zone)..?

If it's an 028 38, 26 or 36 you can get an excellent quality new piston/cylinder from Tecomec for around $125, plus or minus..
 
The believe the devices you folks are speaking of are Glaze Breakers not hones. A hone will actually restore a cylinder to like new condition, round and square.

Paul
 
Paul, you are correct (at least that's what I was referring to). I took a trip to Sears last night to check out their auto repair tools and that's the thing I used on my car...

Lakeside, the picture I posted is an 024 cylinder. The vertical scoring is really only present from the exhaust port down. Nothing on the intake side and nothing to speak of above the exhaust port. So you think it's toast, huh? I tried muratic acid on it today with no luck. Looks the same. That stuff's strong stuff in an unventalated area... Doh!
 
Try honing it..

Paul: no, we are talking about true hones, however, this type of cylinder is not like a car. The difference is that the cylinder lining (nikersil) much harder than any normal hone can handle (other than Diamond), so all you can do is take of a very small amount... you cannot restore the cylinder to "new". If the "scratches" are too deep, it's toast.
 
Try honing it..

Paul: no, we are talking about true hones, however, this type of cylinder is not like a car. The difference is that the cylinder lining (nikersil) much harder than any normal hone can handle (other than Diamond), so all you can do is take of a very small amount... but if you really persist, you can break though the lining - you certainly cannot restore a cyinder with a damaged lining/coating to "new" with any hone. If the "scratches" are too deep, it's toast. I have used a the machine shop automotive hones on these cylinders, and they generally do a worse job than the ball hones.
 
Lakeside53 check these out.

http:/mgaguru.com/mgtech/tools/ts312.htm
http:/www.lislecorp.com/tool_detail.cfm?detail=97
 
The 024 lives!

Since I made you suffer through pictures of my beat up cylinder I thought I would post the results. Lakeside, I had the best intentions of honing it like you and others have suggested. I bought a hone, but it was too big. I know, I'm a num-nuts. Anyway, I was too impatient so I decided to go ahead without the hone. I did get a new Golf piston, which by the way I'm not that thrilled about in retrospect. Maybe they're supposed to be this way, but to get it to fit over the end of the rod I basically had to whack it with my fist until enough piston metal scraped away that it would line up with the wrist pin. I would give it a couple hits, back it out blow out the aluminum fragments that got scraped up, and go at it again. After about 5 minutes of this, I got the thing on. The little clips were my next challenge, as I went through 4 of them to get 2 installed. Sproing!!! The other two are somewhere hiding in my garage. That finally done, I eased on the cylinder, and put it all back together only to find out that the carb was packed solid with sawdust at the gas inlet. Of course it took me 15 minutes to get the linkage off the carb. I later found out that it's easier to get it off if you take the handle apart first. This is all a learning process for me you see.... So after going through the carb and finally getting it all back together, it fired up pretty reliably. It's measuring 150lbs compression cold. I guess that's okay for a non-honed, semi-scored, cluelessly-installed piston & cylinder. So we'll see if my "pro repairs" last if I ever get to actually cut some wood with it!
 
Wait a minute here. You maintain your jets landing gear, and then you press fit a piston to a rod? Whoa baby.
 
I can sympathize with the golf piston pin issues... I have seen them so loose they were unusable, and also so misaligned you have to "press" the pin in... And I've seen a few that fit reasonably...
 

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