My BR600's tale of woe and intrigue...

[blsnelling]

You left out the Shindaiwa EB802. 79cc and only 22.9#.

 

[CentaurG2]

Its hit or miss on the 4-mixer. Half the landscapers I talk to that have them love em and the other half hate em. I own 2. An fs130r and an ht131. Yup same engine. The fs130r is very old and was purchased before Ultra oil was available. It has been used and abused way beyond its design and it still runs flawlessly. It will start second pull every time and has never had a valve adjustment. The ht131 is a lemon. It has been in the shop more than it has been on the job and it stihl starts hard. Quality and uniformity in stihl manufacturing. Not!

I have a big redmax ebz8001. Runs great and is powerful enough to strip paint or the siding off your house but it is like 4 cinderblocks on your back and it just plain drinks fuel. It is also awkward to store and transport. If it died tomorrow I would probably buy a br600.

 

[blsnelling]

Well, I forgot more than the specs on my blower, lol. I found my own YouTube vid, and it's a EB802

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/OYCojXWafUU?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[K&L Landscaping]

You left out the Shindaiwa EB802. 79cc and only 22.9#.

Yes I did, pardon me. What's of more importance here are the CFM values of these blowers. I really couldn't care less about weight, or cc numbers. CFM is the force that moves the debris, the higher the CFM the more debris that is being moved. IMO, people put too much value on air speed, weight and cc's of the engine.

I think if you research the CFM ratings you will find the Redmax EBZ8xxx really has no equal. Actually, if I'm not mistaken Shindaiwa may have the lowest CFM ratings among the big 4. The problem with these ratings is that we're unsure where the volume is measured...i.e. at the housing, or at the end of the nozzle which makes a HUGE difference.

I have used them all through real world applications and the Shindaiwa, STIHL and Echo are really close. The EBZ8xxx has no equal, not really much of a debate. All of these will blow dry leaves REALLY good. The deficiencies become really apparent when the leaves are wet.

 

[blsnelling]

In my research a year ago, I seem to recall that the latest Redmax had taken a turn in the wrong direction. That's one reason I went with the Shindaiwa. Anyone have the CFM specs handy? I like numbers

 

[K&L Landscaping]

In my research a year ago, I seem to recall that the latest Redmax had taken a turn in the wrong direction. That's one reason I went with the Shindaiwa. Anyone have the CFM specs handy? I like numbers

I have some CFM numbers but again, it's unclear how and where the measurements are taken. Shindaiwa does state "at the nozzle". The rest, we're relatively unsure.

1) Shindaiwa EB8520- 760 cfm

2) Shindaiwa EB854- 722 cfm

3) Shindaiwa EB802- 695 cfm

4) Redmax EBZ8500- 907 cfm

5) STIHL BR600 Mag- 712 cfm

6) Echo PB770- 756 cfm

 

[blsnelling]

My search began by throwing out ALL 4-mix type engines. Shindaiwa has had issues there as well.

That new EBZ8500 looks like a hot blower. I have no issue with the strato 2-stroke engine. I would definitely consider it if I were buying now. Redmax has been a top contender for the last several years.

 

[RAMROD48]

The BR600 has the best CFM to weight...and best CFM to engine size...

I like numbers too...

 

[paccity]

although i haven't tried other brands we have 3 br 600's that are 4-5 years old get thrashed daily with no problems other than the ocational choke knob broke off from them throwing them around. my personal one i leave out in the weather all the time on the back of the truck no problems, and they all use husky low smoke mix , have since new. maybe i'm just lucky . woudn't mind trying a diff brand if i knew they would hold up and were less expensive . but the way the br's are holding up i don't know.

 

[walexa07]

My search began by throwing out ALL 4-mix type engines. Shindaiwa has had issues there as well.

That new EBZ8500 looks like a hot blower. I have no issue with the strato 2-stroke engine. I would definitely consider it if I were buying now. Redmax has been a top contender for the last several years.

Althought I never bought one, I had looked into the major mfg blowers as well. The issue with the Redmax has always been the weight from what I recall. But this is just information that I gathered from reading forums and such. Seems they had some minor reliability issues as well, but it has been a while.

Waylan

 

[blsnelling]

That's another thing that landed me on the EB802. I've never read of one failure or reliability issue.

 

[zogger]

I'll ask the mods to move this if that's appropriate...yet for some reason my search is coming up with all references to this widely used product in the chainsaw forum with (from what I can see) no previous debate otherwise. Do tree specialists 'rake' up what falls under the tree for their more discerning clients and then physically bend down/pick up/leave whatever's left behind...or do they use a blower?

Thanks for the help, blsnelling. I'm looking at the RedMax models obviously as well but have no idea who makes the better (highest volume/pressure/longest lasting) product which is all that I am interested in regardless of price.

I don't even run a blower. I do my leaves with a kubota diesel zero turn. It blasts them into powder and little chunks and they rot away back into the natural eco-system. If I want to vacuum them up and take them some place else, I use an even larger kubota diesel 4wd mower with a bagger system.

And you can buy dedicated lawn vacuums as well.

Blowers are tier 3 and lower on the "pro" scale, IMO, talking about leaves. Now high end chainsaws I got no real hands-on input, I'd say about everyone here knows more than I do on that subject, but mowing and leaves at a professional level, there ya go.

rant

I freeking hate when people blow all their crap into the street (which is exactly what happens in the high 90's percentile with blowers and everyone knows it), where the next rain it can plug up the ditches and drains. Should be about a ten grand fine, IMO, split between some snob "client" and the "crew" equally.


Not to say blowers don't have a useful purpose, they do, and not only for leaves, there are many legitimate uses, I just rarely see anyone actually using one in a professional and responsible manner, and that includes all kinds of guys with some name on the side of their truck and tools on a trailer behind it, let alone home mortgage payers.

/rant

With that said, and don't take anything I posted above personal, just my generic rant on &*&^%% blowers, two stroke at this time rules for small hand held liquid fuel burning devices, it just does. I have a 4 stroke weed whacker, pales in comparison to my two stroker tanaka.

If you go to the lawncare forums elsewhere on the internets, you'll find like the redmax and echo stuff is generally well thought of. Current makes/models, no idea, like I said I don't run one so I don't follow that, that close all the time, but it should be easy to narrow it down to a few pro grade choices.

 

[RAMROD48]

I don't even run a blower. I do my leaves with a kubota diesel zero turn. It blasts them into powder and little chunks and they rot away back into the natural eco-system. If I want to vacuum them up and take them some place else, I use an even larger kubota diesel 4wd mower with a bagger system.

And you can buy dedicated lawn vacuums as well.

Blowers are tier 3 and lower on the "pro" scale, IMO, talking about leaves. Now high end chainsaws I got no real hands-on input, I'd say about everyone here knows more than I do on that subject, but mowing and leaves at a professional level, there ya go.

rant

I freeking hate when people blow all their crap into the street (which is exactly what happens in the high 90's percentile with blowers and everyone knows it), where the next rain it can plug up the ditches and drains. Should be about a ten grand fine, IMO, split between some snob "client" and the "crew" equally.


Not to say blowers don't have a useful purpose, they do, and not only for leaves, there are many legitimate uses, I just rarely see anyone actually using one in a professional and responsible manner, and that includes all kinds of guys with some name on the side of their truck and tools on a trailer behind it, let alone home mortgage payers.

/rant

With that said, and don't take anything I posted above personal, just my generic rant on &*&^%% blowers, two stroke at this time rules for small hand held liquid fuel burning devices, it just does. I have a 4 stroke weed whacker, pales in comparison to my two stroker tanaka.If you go to the lawncare forums elsewhere on the internets, you'll find like the redmax and echo stuff is generally well thought of. Current makes/models, no idea, like I said I don't run one so I don't follow that, that close all the time, but it should be easy to narrow it down to a few pro grade choices.

4 stroke or 4 mix?

 

[RAMROD48]

That's another thing that landed me on the EB802. I've never read of one failure or reliability issue.

Or any good for that matter.....

 

[blsnelling]

Or any good for that matter.....

Ptttttthhhhht! Guess you haven't done ANY reading, lol.

 

[RunIt]

"...Thanks for the help, blsnelling. I'm looking at the RedMax models obviously as well but have no idea who makes the better (highest volume/pressure/longest lasting) product which is all that I am interested in regardless of price.

Well it looks as if I'm now going to have to eat my words on the 'price' part.
:disapointed:
The Stihl rep advised that he would extend full retail credit for the cost of the block (approx. $200.00) towards the cost of a new BR600. As previously indicated, I had $250 into the old one just before it failed...which they didn't change their diagnosis of besides the "somebody's been in there it's got rv sealant in it.." mistake that Brad caught and they owned up to before even asking. The serial number (sorry, I didn't request it but will forward it and the purchase date if I can find the paperwork) indicated basically a 'transition engine' somewhere between where the major problems were occuring and the final fix manufactured today.

In my mind it was basically Stihl meeting me halfway. Their certified shop was the last to inspect/adjust an out of warranty machine that I put no dollar restrictions on returning to ship shape. When it ended up torn apart in a box I was forced to buy a new blower from 'somebody; today (again, regardless of price I thought) because they simply do more work easily than I will ever put forth otherwise without one. Am I happy with how Stihl handled this? You bet. Am I sold on the fact that it won't happen again and literally cause me to treat it as a $500 plus throw-away item becasue of the more complicated better-not-break-this-part 4-mix design? Not so much. ..but there comes a point as you age where familiarity in your movements on icy slopes or 'one arming' to do awkward tasks becomes almost automatic after 3 years or so with a 21.6 pound machine attached...which is hard to quantify.

I cannot thank you guys enough for helping me sort through what is available today. There is no doubt in my mind that I would own probably the largest Shindaiwa or some other 2-stroke today if $200 dollars weren't thrown my way after almost $800 w/tax already spent. On the other hand, I'm still dealing with a high volume product line where if I happen to buy an expensive saw (which I desperately need) of the same brand I'm more likely to be viewed as a bit more than a 'one off' customer should further catastrophies arise (and for lazy me, losing my blower in the middle of snow season pretty much qualified).

 

[cc2222]

Sounds like you got it worked out. I have been serviceing Stihl stuff for 30 years now. Sounds like the problem is with the dealer. Any tech that has been in this business for at lest 8 years knows all stihl 4180,4182 4-mix engines are put toghter with RTV sealer. The first ones where put together with a gray sealer. The last ones that had gone throw the changes where put together with red sealer.I sell 300-400 units per year and have had VERY little problems with the 4-mix engines. They are really simple engines to work on. The shade tree tech is really out of his league here. I have had some cam problems, but all where covered by WA. Maybe you need to check the training of the service tech at this dealer ship. Some one really missed the boat here. Good luck with your new BR-600

 

[blsnelling]

In that case I'd go with another BR600 myself.









Then sell it new and buy a EBZ8500:biggrin:

 

[cc2222]

I have one landscapeing company that has 25 BR-600's. 4-5 years old. He had three to mess up. Two were cam problems , the other one they dropped it in a pond .He runs mid grade fuel and ultra oil. They all get filters, valve adjustment and a tune up one time a year. He also his 23 FS110, 8 HT130, and 9 ms362 saw. also do you know about the cold weather shutter in the air cleaner box for running in cold weather.

 

[RunIt]

"..Any tech that has been in this business for at lest 8 years knows all stihl 4180,4182 4-mix engines are put toghter with RTV sealer. The first ones where put together with a gray sealer. The last ones that had gone throw the changes where put together with red sealer...Good luck with your new BR-600"

Thanks, I wasn't all that impressed with the diagnosis either but have to admit that they came clean immediately after finding out for themselves and that means something to me in this day and age of 'say anything' shops. Interestingly, the sealant 'was' red in the defective area although as I mentioned this was a 'transition' serial number and the castings could have I suppose been bad from the beginning as well.

In that case I'd go with another BR600 myself....

Then sell it new and buy a EBZ8500: biggrin:

:rolleyes2:...If it can't blow a brick 10 feet like your souped up 802 on YouTube...then what kind of sissy blower is it anyways? :msp_smile: