My custom Echo small wood and limbing saw project

[buttercup]

So I have a 360 top handle and a 361 rear handle, I first bought the top handle saw but it was too big and heavy for my intended use.
I have later bought a smaller 280 top handle that suits my needs, but I regretted that I didn't buy the rear handle version 360 because that would be a perfect couple.

So when the discount was good I bought the 361 rear handle, and it surely is a good quality saw for it's class but there was a couple of things I liked better about my 360 top handle.
Now I will attempt to put the rear handle from the 361 on to the 360 and that is not without problems because though they seem almost identical there are small changes all over.
I have looked at it quite thoroughly and I'm quite sure it's possible to adapt the rear handle with some modifications, but the front handle/bar I will need to modify or completely remake so that will be the biggest challenge.
I'm not sure it will be possible to make the 361 in to a top handle with the parts I have but I will likely try to do that later, otherwise only one of the saws will come out of this alive.


Here is what I liked better about my 360 top handle compared to the 361 rear handle;

The bar studs on the 360T is standard 8mm, on the 361W they are 8mm studs but with 6mm threads and nuts
- which is kinda silly because I'm always using two saws and will need a separate "special" wrench tool.


The 360T has metal inlays in the plastic and uses metal/machine thread screws at critical places.


The 360T has a two point hinged chain brake handle.


And finally, the 360T have a bigger carburetor; about 13,5mm compared to the 361W at about 12mm.

 

[buttercup]

I have started to modify the 361W rear handle to fit the 360T.
If I suddenly stop posting in this thread you know I have messed up two perfectly good almost brand new chainsaws

I had to remove a small piece of the climbing attachment, not sure what its for but I cant imagine its anything critical.
You can see how it was in the second picture up to the right corner;


This is the rear left AV mount on the rear handle and you can see I have grinded away some material;


Some curved shapes needed for the brake handle hinge point and the top lid of the 360T;


Just removed some unnecessary material here;


This is the brake handle hinge point removal from the underside of the rear handle;

 

[buttercup]

They are wired a little differently;


I have used the carb.intake, impulse tube, air duct from the flywheel and ground wire from the 361W.
I also needed to grind away a small area for the tubes at the top cover;


Getting all the rubber in place at the rear handle needed "a lot" of patience;

 

[buttercup]

Finally the rear handle is in place and mounted;

 

[buttercup]

The carburetor fuel return(?) needs to have a different angle for the 360T carb to fit in the 361W rear handle.
I just used a wrench and positioned it gently in the right direction;


The fuel hose needs to be elongated a bit, I used a piece of steel tube and some of the fuel hose from the other saw;


I have used the coil wire to the stop switch from the 360T, but the socket at the switch needs to be the one from the 361W;


Its important not to over tighten the carb bolts, the air filter manifold will start to bend when it's too much.
The rest is a breeze, the carb assembly is ready;


Now the challenging part remains: making a new front handle/bar;

 

[buttercup]

I have used high density foam to make the core of the front handle, its just glued on to the original 360/361 front handle left/right mount pieces with 5 min epoxy;


Its easiest to shape it as a square profile, it needs to be as low as possible and as forwards as possible for the chain brake to be in reach;

 

[buttercup]

I have finished the shape of the front handle/bar;


The carbon fiber hose expands when pushed together and shrinks when stretched;


I use a light mist of spray adhesive to help attach the carbon fiber hose at the ends;


I have cut some pieces of "twill weave" (conforms to complex shapes) "peel ply" (nylon rip off cloth) and bandaged the carbon to make sure its tight after it has been saturated with laminating epoxy.
This is the first of two layers of carbon fiber, tomorrow I'll remove the bandage and we'll see if the skin transplant was successful;

 

[buttercup]

So after all the red wine yesterday and surely plenty of stupid comments here at AS as a result, I woke up just in time to proceed with my project

The laminating epoxy is fully cured after 24 hours, after about 12 hours it has become solid but is still kinda soft.
At this time its possible to cut the carbon fiber quite easily with a knife;


Now I have mounted the front handle/bar at the saw so that it is perfectly in shape while the epoxy fully hardens.
Then I have used elastic tape and winded it very tightly two times along the bar/handle back and forth, this makes a quite strong pressure if the carbon fiber is not fully compressed to the bar in some places;


Now I will probably let this be until tomorrow or a couple of days and when it is fully hardened it will be stiff like aluminum.
Then I will sand it, correct some unevenness perhaps use a little spackle even, and apply the second layer of carbon fiber and I might do that using a vacuum bag instead of the peelply strips.
Finally I will sand it lightly and apply a finishing coat of epoxy, I guess it will be ready next weekend perhaps.

After that it will be the muffler at the operating table

 

[buttercup]

I have started on the muffler, this muffler needs to be split because every part in it is solidly soldered together.
The tubes for the bolts needs to be split too, I used a super thin (1mm) wheel on my angle grinder. And yes, it does hurt when it dissolves at 10k rpm;


The cat is not really restrictive - it has a much bigger area than the exhaust outlet probably 3 or 4 times bigger - something to consider.
The exhaust outlet in the muffler is pretty decent according to my calculations, its actually about 140% the size of my Husky 45cc 445. The outside baffle might be restrictive however.
There is an additional 5mm diameter hole under the outside baffle to guide the exhaust forwards - drilling a second 5mm hole would make it plenty;

 

[link]

https://www.arboristsite.com/threads/echo-360.356426/

 

[irhunter]

This project strikes me as excellent. No saw is perfect.

I am contemplating a re-work of a 026 to change the handfull of things which bug me about the saw.

 

[Wood Doctor]

This project strikes me as excellent. No saw is perfect.

I am contemplating a re-work of a 026 to change the handful of things that bug me about the saw.

That's a Stihl 026, right? If so, I restored one for an owner who decided to buy another saw. That 026 was sold for $200 more than the price paid for it as a non-runner. I should have offered to buy it back. My error.

 

[irhunter]

Yes. Stihl 026. One of my favorites...but, it seems every saw has something about it that I don't care for.

 

[link]

This project strikes me as excellent. No saw is perfect.

I am contemplating a re-work of a 026 to change the handfull of things which bug me about the saw.

Well, when I look at the thread now it seems to me way too much detail and pics in to stuff that is probably less interesting, but I just get very focused when I'm in to something and obviously at the time I felt it neccesary to share all those unneccesary pics. Anyway, that muffler set me off and it took a year for me to finally bring it back on to my workbench and put it together again, I reworked the front handle alittle too. I was allmost ready to just buy a new Stihl 201 with a rear handle, but I'm quite happy with this one now. A new Sthil 201 together with a new bar and chain to get the picco micro 1,1mm chain on to it would have been an expensive trip.

But I do find it annoying when I buy a new saw and I think to myself: why could'nt they just make it like this and that instead and it would have been perfect.

 

[computeruser]

Great thread and pics!

 

[link]

So, I thought I'd sum up this thread now finally.
Sorry for the confusion with the names, I'm such a buttercup.. last night I had a few bottles of grape juice and it seems it might have fermented a little, I didnt have a password and probably not the email used, and my brain was probably not at it's optimum capacity - which is'nt that great anyways.
Also sorry for any confusion regarding wrong spelling and such, my guess is you will still understand most of it if you want to - perhaps even get a good laugh.

The muffler is braced (silver or brass solder) together and I just had some bits of brass tube outside the bolt guide tubes mounted with some car muffler paste to make it air/gas tight, because obviously they where split in the middle when I splitted the muffler.

These mufflers are not that restricted, the passig through the catalyst is huge and the exit is probably the same as on a 45cc, but obviously the muffler area is very small compared to such as a motorcycle or moped and when removing the catalyst that area becomes atleast a little bigger for the pressurized gas to exit the cylinder.
I opened the exit just a tad where the exhaust needs to pass through the spark catching grid.


I also opened up the exit cover slightly.


I removed most of the bulgy muffler cover, on my 280T it started melting anyway.


The horizontal part of the front handle is slightly offset, it just seemed a little more comfortable to my wrist.


So when saying it cuts better than a 50cc that's probably a little bold and exaggerated, but when I adjusted the carb I had the 14" completely buried in birchwood (the wood was 15-16") and it cuts a lot smoother and at least as fast or faster as any homeowner 45cc.
The carb is obviously precisely made to work with the original muffler, because usually with a mufflermod the change would not be this dramatic: 4,5 to 5 turns at high to make it fourstroke when it cuts free from the wood without it starting to scream at an exessive rpm.
The Sthil picco micro 1,1mm chain makes a big difference on a small saw such as this so thats probably a 20% gain alone, so its difficult for me to see exactly how much the muffler mod actually did and how much is just the chain. Oregon have a similar chain at 1,1mm.


There! this project is finally finished. If the sunbug gets me I may pass on to the next world with a smile knowing: I did it my way.
Good enough for small wood and limbing...

 

[Brufab]

That was a wicked build you did on that echo! Reading thru the posts it was very suspenseful to say the least. Great work!

 

[link]

I made a video, the carb is at about 4 turns at high now.
I was impressed at first and might have exaggerated how it cuts compared to bigger saws, but remember this is a small lightweight saw at about 36cc and 3,8kg (8.4lb).
Anyway, here it is - and you may judge for yourselves based on your own reference.

 

[Brufab]

Wow pretty fast for 30cc ish

 

[Brufab]

That saw build looks like it could beat my stock cs-400 with same 14" bar.