Need some tractor knowledge

[AIM]

In my area, it's almost easier to find tractors in the 60 hp range or more for the same amount of money.

I'm all for more hp. 50 hp seemed to be the min that a few guys told me to look at. I'm really not worried about fuel economy. I'd be surprised if I logged 50 hours a year on it.

 

[AIM]

Don't bush hogs have a clutch so it can't push the tractor as it spools down?

From what I understand...... I don't think the brush hogs do but rather you can get a unit that goes on the tractor. I think they called it an "overrunning clutch" that ratchets allowing the hog to spin down.

 

[AIM]

Here's my take on this. Older tractors (pre 50's) had non live pto. The pto was shifted into and out of gear. The pto only operated when the tractor clutch was engaged. If you stopped the tractor, the pto would stop. For stationary work, you shifted the pto into gear, the transmission into neutral, and engaged the clutch to start the pto.

When live pto was introduced, the pto was given it's own clutch. You simply engaged the pto with this clutch completely independent of the transmission clutch. The pto drive shaft was connected live to the engine, i.e. it was always in gear, but the output shaft was controlled by the pto clutch, regardless of the state of the transmission or transmission clutch.

Allis Chalmers had their own thing going on,so tthat's another story.

Actually the allis I was looking at was the one that guy that said the hand clutch was great for what I wanted to do. (of course he was trying to sell it to me as well) His logic did make sense though (if true) He claimed the hand clutch affected the tranny only. You could feather it slowing yourself down in heavy brush or snow while the pto remained at full power.
Somewhere in our conversation he mentioned that these tractors were primarily designed to work crops. Brush hogging, snowblowing, pulling trees, etc was and afterthought. His meaning was that a great tractor for a cornfield might not be the best tractor for me.

On a side note. He commented with a laugh.. "the only good an 8N has is to paint up pretty and drive it in a parade... haha

 

[1 stihl nut]

Actually live pto is controlled by the clutch. Independent pto has it's own clutch independent of the tranny clutch. . Another term for "live power" is "two stage clutch."


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That is perhaps a newer definition. When tractors first came out with the separate clutch on the pto, the were marketed as having "live pto and hydraulics"

On the older tractors without live power, the hydraulic pump was also driven off the pto shaft, meaning the hydraulics only worked if the pto was in gear and the tractor clutch was engaged. This didn't make for handy loader tractors, as you couldn't operate the hydraulics unless either the tractor was being driven, or you stopped and shifted the tractor into neutral, re engaged the clutch so the hydraulics could be used and then when ready, disengage the clutch, shift the tractor back into gear and re engage the clutch.

Any how on tractors with live power, the hydraulic pump is driven off the pto shaft internally before the pto clutch so it is driven constantly. Then the pto clutch turns the external pto shaft on or off independently. Of course some tractors have engine driven pumps, but they are usually smaller in capacity.

The newer differentiation of live pto and independent pto has been brought about since the development of the two stage clutches. But when the separate pto clutches were first introduced in the late 40's and early 50's, it was marketed as live pto on company literature and it is still very commonly used, although it certainly is independent as well.

 

[1 stihl nut]

Actually the allis I was looking at was the one that guy that said the hand clutch was great for what I wanted to do. (of course he was trying to sell it to me as well) His logic did make sense though (if true) He claimed the hand clutch affected the tranny only. You could feather it slowing yourself down in heavy brush or snow while the pto remained at full power.
Somewhere in our conversation he mentioned that these tractors were primarily designed to work crops. Brush hogging, snowblowing, pulling trees, etc was and afterthought. His meaning was that a great tractor for a cornfield might not be the best tractor for me.

On a side note. He commented with a laugh.. "the only good an 8N has is to paint up pretty and drive it in a parade... haha

Allis was one of the first to improve on "non live pto" with their hand and foot clutch set up, but it still a step behind tractors with the independent clutch set up that came along shortly after.

I have some older Case tractors with live power and a hand clutch. Hand clutches are nice if you are getting on and off the tractor frequently, as you don't have to keep shifting in and out of gear. They are not as handy when backing trailers and wagons and such stuff.

 

[AIM]

Has anyone here used a snowblower on one? The idea I have in my head says they would be the cats arse for my setup. Long lanes and field crossings to get to the woods. Seems to me (in my head) that I could just engage the blower and just back nonstop across the field to the woods. Does it work like that???
Plus I have a lot of driveway and parking area that I need to keep clear.
How do they work in packed wet snow? If backed by enough HP will they eat through about anything?

 

[brenndatomu]

Has anyone here used a snowblower on one?

I have run a 3 point mounted blower on a Ford 800 (801?) diesel

Seems to me (in my head) that I could just engage the blower and just back nonstop across the field to the woods. Does it work like that???

If you have enough horsepower. Just like with any other snowblower, some types of snow blow better than others. This would be a good application for a powershift trans or hydro. No fun at all if you don't have live PTO though!

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

My pepere had one on a Oliver 1855 was either 8 or 10ft wide. Worked pretty well aside from being twisted to see where your going.
That was the biggest tractor he owned, at the time it was a good sized tractor too, about 100hp. He farmed potatoes in northern Maine until the early 90s.

Tractor is still on the "farm" (not farmed anymore, owned by realutives) and used for snow removal. Not sure on the hrs, but it's got the "crappy" Waukesha diesel and been trouble free for over 40 years.

 

[GVS]

Actually the allis I was looking at was the one that guy that said the hand clutch was great for what I wanted to do. (of course he was trying to sell it to me as well) His logic did make sense though (if true) He claimed the hand clutch affected the tranny only. You could feather it slowing yourself down in heavy brush or snow while the pto remained at full power.
Somewhere in our conversation he mentioned that these tractors were primarily designed to work crops. Brush hogging, snowblowing, pulling trees, etc was and afterthought. His meaning was that a great tractor for a cornfield might not be the best tractor for me.

On a side note. He commented with a laugh.. "the only good an 8N has is to paint up pretty and drive it in a parade... haha

I'm by no means an expert on A/C tractors! But it seems to me that the hand clutch on those tractors disconnected one axel shaft thus stoping tractor movement but still allowing the PTO to operate.(if it was engaged to begin with).As to the hi range, lo range comment ,that sounds like a Farmall /IH TORQUE AMPLIFIER system and I'm not sure A/C had such a system even under a different name.

 

[GVS]

I'm by no means an expert on A/C tractors! But it seems to me that the hand clutch on those tractors disconnected one axel shaft thus stoping tractor movement but still allowing the PTO to operate.(if it was engaged to begin with).As to the hi range, lo range comment ,that sounds like a Farmall /IH TORQUE AMPLIFIER system and I'm not sure A/C had such a system even under a different name.

If you go to "yesterdays tractors" web site you can get all kinds of info on nearly every make and model tractor old and new out there.As to the 8 N ford remark,an awful lot of farmers did an awful lot of farming with them and the 9 and 2N tractors as well.Ford sold somewhere around a half a million of them!

 

[Oldman47]

Has anyone here used a snowblower on one? The idea I have in my head says they would be the cats arse for my setup. Long lanes and field crossings to get to the woods. Seems to me (in my head) that I could just engage the blower and just back nonstop across the field to the woods. Does it work like that???
Plus I have a lot of driveway and parking area that I need to keep clear.
How do they work in packed wet snow? If backed by enough HP will they eat through about anything?

Something to consider, just like with a mower, is that in places you will have v4 foot high drifts and in other places you will have 6 inches of snow. If you are willing to move at the 4 foot drift speed all the way it will work but my bet is you will want to speed up when the snow to be moved is minimal.

 

[066blaster]

Live power is best and I'm pretty sure it's standard now days. Good for snow blowing, bailing, everything really. Let's say your snowblowing and get to a big drift. You can put the clutch in to stop the movement of the tractor but the pto keeps going, so you can creep through it. Without live power when you put the clutch in everything stops. Also anything decent is diesel, 4 wheel drive, foot clutch or hydrostatic, power steering. You would be surprised how useless a 2 wheel drive tractor is. Our diesel tractors start fine down to zero without block heaters. If you get a tractor with a loader you don't need a snowblower. The old john deeres, have hand clutches and can be bought cheap. A or b models . What ever you get make sure it has a standard 3 point hitch.

 

[066blaster]

Has anyone here used a snowblower on one? The idea I have in my head says they would be the cats arse for my setup. Long lanes and field crossings to get to the woods. Seems to me (in my head) that I could just engage the blower and just back nonstop across the field to the woods. Does it work like that???
Plus I have a lot of driveway and parking area that I need to keep clear.
How do they work in packed wet snow? If backed by enough HP will they eat through about anything?

I would get a scraper blade for your 3 point. You can spin the blade around and you then have a snow plow. You have to drive in reverse but it's cheap and heavy duty. If you hit a big rock or stump with a blower it will most likely damage it. Off roading with a blower is risky.
You can use the blade in the forward position for lighter snow but it will turn you sideways in heavy stuff. You can push way more snow than you can pull.

 

[msmith]

I'm by no means an expert on A/C tractors! But it seems to me that the hand clutch on those tractors disconnected one axel shaft thus stoping tractor movement but still allowing the PTO to operate.(if it was engaged to begin with).As to the hi range, lo range comment ,that sounds like a Farmall /IH TORQUE AMPLIFIER system and I'm not sure A/C had such a system even under a different name.

No. It was not like IH's torque amplifier or Massey's multi power, it is high and low range. Used one many years.


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[msmith]

Live vs independent

http://www.tractordata.com/articles/technical/pto.html


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[hopm]

50 hp is a hoss...whole lot more tractor than most folks realize. We have several around here and seems the old piece that was my goto was a 1952 JD 40 Industrial. Pulled everything I hooked to and went way beyond my expectations for everything I asked of it. It's gas, 26hp, wide front, and best I can remember little has been done to it outside of the normal wear and tear for the past 25 years. A nice 40 can be found for around $2500.

But.....I have just bought a New Holland TC 30. Based on the past few months here are the things I have learned with the TC30:
1) 4wd is the great equalizer. I have been amazed at what it does to make the little tractor seem stronger.
2) Front end loader is an absolute must.
3) Diesel is waaaaayy more efficient.

In my opinion...look and save until you get exactly what you need.

 

[farmer steve]

Has anyone here used a snowblower on one? The idea I have in my head says they would be the cats arse for my setup. Long lanes and field crossings to get to the woods. Seems to me (in my head) that I could just engage the blower and just back nonstop across the field to the woods. Does it work like that???
Plus I have a lot of driveway and parking area that I need to keep clear.
How do they work in packed wet snow? If backed by enough HP will they eat through about anything?

they won't spit out pieces of "misplaced" firewood. wet snow is a pain but you can move it. i have a 55 hp NH with a 65" blower on it. i won't use it anywhere i don't know what is under the snow. it works great on my driveway. wish i had a cab though. 4 wd is the only way to go.

 

[farmer steve]

50 hp is a hoss...whole lot more tractor than most folks realize. We have several around here and seems the old piece that was my goto was a 1952 JD 40 Industrial. Pulled everything I hooked to and went way beyond my expectations for everything I asked of it. It's gas, 26hp, wide front, and best I can remember little has been done to it outside of the normal wear and tear for the past 25 years. A nice 40 can be found for around $2500.

But.....I have just bought a New Holland TC 30. Based on the past few months here are the things I have learned with the TC30:
1) 4wd is the great equalizer. I have been amazed at what it does to make the little tractor seem stronger.
2) Front end loader is an absolute must.
3) Diesel is waaaaayy more efficient.

In my opinion...look and save until you get exactly what you need.

yes,yes and yes.

 

[cus_deluxe]

Just my .02, i dont own a tractor but i have run a lot of them from an old JD 420 and 10-10, to newer kubota L and M series, newer john deeres in the 50 hp range, and by far the best all around tractor ive used is a JD 4400, 35 ish HP, hydro transmission, all the pto's and attachments you could ever need. A decent used one could be had for 10k. Maybe theres some nostalgia or whatever but spending 5k on a 30-40 year old gas machine and expecting to be able to put it to work reliably is just not realistic most of the time. Unless your wanting to pull a 8-9 bottom plow, 50hp is way overkill.

 

[hopm]

got a friend who bought a tractor a while back. I tried to get him to look in the 30 to 35 hp range. Told him hydrostatic transmission. Told him 4wd. Told him FEL. He got a 2 wheel drive, no loader, 65 hp that he uses for a 1/2 acre garden. He basically plows once a year then uses a tiller.