Need your advice on trailer design

[les-or-more]

8 big rounds isn't too shabby for a bumper pull trailer...

It has hauled a few thousand of them since it was new, along with about every thing else you can think of.

 

[stihly dan]

WOW, thats going to be a VERY well built / over built trailer.

I must ask why tube steel why not C-Channel? Seems like C-Channel is much cheaper and more corrosion resistant.

Check out Nichols Trailer in Maine, the guy does some incredible work. Now that I have a full size truck I am saving up for a trailer to cart the tractor around with.

I have to admit when it comes to welding, steel, or anything to do with the fabrication of anything, I am clueless. I had no idea what rolled steel was. Still don't know if boxed steel or rolled is the same or not. I left that stuff up to the welding teacher. I thought that rolled was stronger, seems to make sense. But since I was given the heads up about the corrosion, that's why I am dolling out the doe for the paint. I am also going to put a good amount of oil in the rolled steel for it to slosh around to protect the inside.

 

[les-or-more]

This is rolled steel, flat plate that has been rolled, in this case into halves of a cylinder.

 

[nathon918]

I had no idea what rolled steel was. Still don't know if boxed steel or rolled is the same or not

"rolled" really means nothing...
theres "hot rolled" which is what les-or-more is showing, theres "cold rolled" which is "clean" and doesn't have mill scale.
tubing is also "rolled"
channel, angle, tees, I beams, solid round, are all "rolled" some cold (most hot)...rolled doesn't really mean much when talking about strength...all that is figured out with the Grade,
your most typical structural shapes (angle, channel, I beam, etc.) are A-36 (36,000 PSI minimum yield strength, 58,000 psi tensile strength)
tubing like on your trailer ASTM A-500 has multiple grades most typical is grade B which is also 58,000 psi tensile strength...
its all good stuff, and Canadian steel is just as good as US steel...just don't use that Chinese garbage!

 

[Preston]

The most important thing I had to watch when I had a trailer business, is the placement of the axles. That would seem like a simple thing but the placement of the axles and the center line of the the hitch I've seen off more than once on some trailers.
I traded a dobro I had for a trailer a couple years ago. The one I had was stolen and I no longer have the facilities to build one, so I traded for one. It wasn't used much as I found that a little strange. The wiring didn't work for the brake but the lights did. When I got home I found out why. When the brake was applied it would lock. I did a little investigation and found the brake axle was backwards. After some work swapping ends of the axle it works like a champ. When it was built somebody just didn't pay attention to detail and screwed up. Little things do matter.

 

[les-or-more]

"rolled" really means nothing...
theres "hot rolled" which is what les-or-more is showing, theres "cold rolled" which is "clean" and doesn't have mill scale.
tubing is also "rolled"
channel, angle, tees, I beams, solid round, are all "rolled" some cold (most hot)...rolled doesn't really mean much when talking about strength...all that is figured out with the Grade,
your most typical structural shapes (angle, channel, I beam, etc.) are A-36 (36,000 PSI minimum yield strength, 58,000 psi tensile strength)
tubing like on your trailer ASTM A-500 has multiple grades most typical is grade B which is also 58,000 psi tensile strength...
its all good stuff, and Canadian steel is just as good as US steel...just don't use that Chinese garbage!

For clarity, the picture is of hot rolled plate, that was then cold rolled to give it shape.

 

[stihly dan]

Another thing I learned today is that you should put zinc paint on all the welds, I doubt I will be doing that as the painting business seems to be complicated enough.

 

[nathon918]

Another thing I learned today is that you should put zinc paint on all the welds, I doubt I will be doing that as the painting business seems to be complicated enough.

why is that?
if you want to put zinc on it...put a couple zinc anodes on it...will do better than just paint for corrosion protection

 

[Preston]

Mr expert, read his post. It looks like he wants to put zinc paint on the welds. Regardless of your opinion. Just because you can strike an arc, does not an expert make.

 

[nathon918]

Mr expert, read his post. It looks like he wants to put zinc paint on the welds. Regardless of your opinion. Just because you can strike an arc, does not an expert make.

what is the reason to put zinc paint on just the welds? If I were worried about something rusting out it wouldn't be at the thickest part (the weld)...why not just paint the whole thing with zinc pain????
its just a paint...eventually it will flake off just like any other.
if it were me I'd be looking into having it hot dip galvanized...best protection you will get other than stainless or aluminum

 

[les-or-more]

I am no expert on any thing but I wondered the same, my experience has been that 70-s6 filler is reasonably good for corrosion resistance. That is assuming that they mig welded the trailer and that is what they used. Hot dip is great for corrosion but looks crappy when painted with all the drips and runs from the galvanizing. I have always wanted to try stainless to see how it worked over all, not impressed with aluminum. The enclosed trailers we sold were skinned with painted aluminum and the salt corroded holes through them that we had to replace. We had a brand new aluminum cattle trailer from a top name company that rode on a wedge trailer from the midwest. We unloaded it and prepped it for the customer and in the process found several cracks that needed to be welded before it had even rolled down the road on its own wheels.

 

[Preston]

What you have to have is adhesion. What ever you find that will adhere to the metal. But first the 'flux' from the weld has to be removed. The acid will eat through most anything I know of you could put on there. Once you know it's clean, primer will work. I had some thing powder coated thinking that was tops. But rust came on through I think because the folks didn't prep it. That is get the metal clean to start with. So no matter what you do it has to be free of any oils and/or acid residue.

 

[brenndatomu]

But rust came on through I think because the folks didn't prep it.

Another thing I learned today is that you should put zinc paint on all the welds, I doubt I will be doing that as the painting business seems to be complicated enough.

I have two pieces of advise (free!)
1. Spend the money for top quality paint/primer (sounds like you did)
2. Spend the time to do the prep work RIGHT! Any paint no matter the cost or quality is worthless if you don't prep the metal right. Time spent doin it correctly now will pay dividends down the road in paint, and therefore trailer longevity. The only thing I hate more than painting, is repainting because it wasn't done right the first time!

 

[stihly dan]

Funny that this topic hit today. When I went into the school today to drop off the paper work about the paint, the teacher came to me and said he thought this type would be to much for the kids. The paint and epoxy primer was MKC you had to mix reducers and hardeners and thinners together then time was set in motion. So I returned it and got my almost $400 back, I was sent to a truck place that told me MKC was junk for a trailer. (wrong application) This guy told me that the trailer to be down right had to be sand blasted first. I guess you have to get rid of the mill spec and make the metal shiny or the paint will peel in sheets. He used older fisher plows as an example. He sent me to a truck & equipment refinisher. Now I am getting a price to have it (beed pinged) steel balls or coal or something as the sand. He is also pricing out industrial paint for me too. Pending on cost I may just have this guy do the whole thing prep and goop. That is what they do after all. He also pointed out some nice interlocking pre manufactured oak decking. This having it made business is getting EXPENSIVE, may end up costing more than buying one. SOB!

 

[Preston]

One thing I have seen some folks do after building a trailer, is to let it sit out in the weather till you see a very fine coat of rust appear. That means the oil and such is gone. Then just a very light sanding and prime it. Let that sit at least 2 days then paint it. If the welds are wire then take a hammer and chisel and remove any splatter balls. It stick welded the slag it and brush is well with a steel brush before you set it out.

All I say is just suggestion I've seen work before. Mainly because I thrifty. Not cheap mind you. Just thrifty.

 

[les-or-more]

Funny that this topic hit today. When I went into the school today to drop off the paper work about the paint, the teacher came to me and said he thought this type would be to much for the kids. The paint and epoxy primer was MKC you had to mix reducers and hardeners and thinners together then time was set in motion. So I returned it and got my almost $400 back, I was sent to a truck place that told me MKC was junk for a trailer. (wrong application) This guy told me that the trailer to be down right had to be sand blasted first. I guess you have to get rid of the mill spec and make the metal shiny or the paint will peel in sheets. He used older fisher plows as an example. He sent me to a truck & equipment refinisher. Now I am getting a price to have it (beed pinged) steel balls or coal or something as the sand. He is also pricing out industrial paint for me too. Pending on cost I may just have this guy do the whole thing prep and goop. That is what they do after all. He also pointed out some nice interlocking pre manufactured oak decking. This having it made business is getting EXPENSIVE, may end up costing more than buying one. SOB!

The epoxy primer we used on mine was a PPG product but it has been too long for me to remember which one. I don't know how bad they de-ice the roads in NH but here in NY they dump the stuff. I think they are under contract with the big three, so people have to buy new every 5 years or all they have is a pile of rust dust! We sanded the mill scale on mine and then wiped it down with a prep solvent, then sprayed it with the primer. We had a part time painter who did all the painting so I don't know how involved the mixing got. I don't think it was too bad or I would have heard what a pain in the posterior it was. The only thing I got was some comments about the mint green color, I told him to shut up and paint it black!

 

[stihly dan]

One thing I have seen some folks do after building a trailer, is to let it sit out in the weather till you see a very fine coat of rust appear. That means the oil and such is gone. Then just a very light sanding and prime it. Let that sit at least 2 days then paint it. If the welds are wire then take a hammer and chisel and remove any splatter balls. It stick welded the slag it and brush is well with a steel brush before you set it out.

All I say is just suggestion I've seen work before. Mainly because I thrifty. Not cheap mind you. Just thrifty.

No, thank you for your advice and input I really appreciate all the suggestions. Good or ok, this is not my expertise or in this case I'm just plain old dumb. But I am learning a lot of crap that I didn't think I needed.

 

[stihly dan]

The epoxy primer we used on mine was a PPG product but it has been too long for me to remember which one. I don't know how bad they desalt the roads in NH but here in NY they dump the stuff. I think they are under contract with the big three, so people have to buy new every 5 years or all they have is a pile of rust dust! We sanded the mill scale on mine and then wiped it down with a prep solvent, then sprayed it with the primer. We had a part time painter who did all the painting so I don't know how involved the mixing got. I don't think it was too bad or I would have heard what a pain in the posterior it was. The only thing I got was some comments about the mint green color, I told him to shut up and paint it black!

Probably wont be running in the winter. To much snow hard to maneuver on some roads with just the truck, forget about a trailer. Plus I am not going to be plowing access for it incase I MAY need it. They do tend to get parked on dirt and sit for long periods of time.

 

[les-or-more]

Probably wont be running in the winter. To much snow hard to maneuver on some roads with just the truck, forget about a trailer. Plus I am not going to be plowing access for it incase I MAY need it. They do tend to get parked on dirt and sit for long periods of time.

I built mine as a 4 place drive on drive off snowmobile trailer that could haul a tractor when needed. I have two gates for the front and one that goes in between the back ramps. Got to get the most out of your investment.

 

[steved]

"rolled" really means nothing...
theres "hot rolled" which is what les-or-more is showing, theres "cold rolled" which is "clean" and doesn't have mill scale.
tubing is also "rolled"
channel, angle, tees, I beams, solid round, are all "rolled" some cold (most hot)...rolled doesn't really mean much when talking about strength...all that is figured out with the Grade,
your most typical structural shapes (angle, channel, I beam, etc.) are A-36 (36,000 PSI minimum yield strength, 58,000 psi tensile strength)
tubing like on your trailer ASTM A-500 has multiple grades most typical is grade B which is also 58,000 psi tensile strength...
its all good stuff, and Canadian steel is just as good as US steel...just don't use that Chinese garbage!

You typically have cold rolled electric fusion welded with plain steel and pickled&oiled. They then anneal it and draw it as necessary. I probably formed a couple million feet of structural tubing when I was younger.

The quality of the steel, structural dimensions, and wall thickness are where it gets its strength...assuming its not drawn/annealed. Tube is cheaper and stronger than channel, the reason its being used in a lot of light truck frames these days.

As for the Canadian steel, the worst steel we ever got was a boat load of Russian steel. It would change heats several times in the same coil, which causes the size to change, the walls to change, and the sttaightness to vary....