New chain vs sharpened.

[grizz55chev]

Great information Philbert!

 

[farmer steve]

I still have not met anyone stubborn/silly enough to "sharpen" a new chain out of the box!!!!

Come on over sometime Harley. i almost always run a file over a new chain before i cut. Not serious filing just a swipe or 2 over each cutter. rarely touch the rakers till about the fourth or fifth filing.

 

[hedge hog]

I still have not met anyone stubborn/silly enough to "sharpen" a new chain out of the box!!!!

I have never had a Stihl chain that was brand new with rakers the same height
Always 1 to 4 thousands difference from left cutters to right cutters
But all the left cutters were the same as each other
Same so with the right ones
Drives me nuts so I always set the rakers on a brand new chain


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[user 122190]

I have never had a Stihl chain that was brand new with rakers the same height
Always 1 to 4 thousands difference from left cutters to right cutters
But all the left cutters were the same as each other
Same so with the right ones
Drives me nuts so I always set the rakers on a brand new chain


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What happens if you don't? And how do you measure a 1/1000th inch difference from raker to raker?

 

[vortec325]

Sorry, I missed this earlier question. Companies that manufacture chains do a lot of research and testing on different species of wood. They measure the effect that a small change in the design of the cutter, or the sharpening angles, can make on speed, power demand, cutter life, etc.

But then they sell that chain to millions of users around the world, and have to pick general guidelines for 'all-around' use. If you are only cutting hardwoods, or only cutting softwoods, you may get better performance with different angles. It can even vary with the power of the saw that you are using.

No reason that you cannot have different chains ground or filed for different types of trees or cutting conditions. But if you want to stick to 'all-around' angles, the manufacturers' recommendations are a good place to start.

If you want to experiment, start with these top plate angles:
25° for hard or frozen wood;
30° for general use;
35° for softwood.

As noted, you can also use a more aggressive depth gauge setting with soft words, because they require less power to cut a larger chip.

Philbert

I’m assuming that means 25* angle is more durable than a 35* just not as sharp


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[hedge hog]

What happens if you don't? And how do you measure a 1/1000th inch difference from raker to raker?

A straight edge across the top of the chain and one of these

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[Philbert]

And how do you measure a 1/1000th inch difference from raker to raker?

https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/depth-gauge-tools-for-saw-chain.279374/

https://www.arboristsite.com/commun...l-indicator-feedback-on-marketability.295188/

Philbert

 

[grizz55chev]

https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/depth-gauge-tools-for-saw-chain.279374/

https://www.arboristsite.com/commun...l-indicator-feedback-on-marketability.295188/

Philbert

So much to learn, so little time! I hand file everything I own, and it only takes about 10 seconds in the cut to tell if it’s right.

 

[hedge hog]

What happens if you don't? And how do you measure a 1/1000th inch difference from raker to raker?

If there not all the same they don’t take same amount of wood out as the others
So if the right side is pulling.004 more or thicker chips out it tend pull slightly to that side
They run and feed a lot smoother
You may not see it with smaller bars but 25” - 36” bars will show it bar deep


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[Cliff R]

I've ran into a few chains that required sharpening right off the loop. Stihl chain although excellent quality seems to need a little attention more than Oregon.

I've been cutting wood since the mid 1970's and "touch-up" the chain on the saw I'm using every time it gets fueled up. To save time these days I take no less than 3 saws to any outing and just grab another saw if I hit something or run out of fuel.

It takes a little practice to get good at chain sharpening. Helps to use the right size file and highest quality files you can find. I buy Stihl files in 3 packs at our local John Deere dealer, they are good quality and last quite a while.

With most chains I don't start dropping the rakers till the 3rd or 4th sharpening. Taking a bigger "bite" in the wood can create a lot of additional vibration and not nearly as smooth in the cut, especially in hardwoods that have been down for a while.

Type of cutter is a matter of personal preference but it should be chosen based on the job at hand. For super-clean material full chisel is fine, but if the wood has been skidded or pulled to landing you'll find round cutters will continue to cut 3-5 times longer without sharpening than the square cutters.

Been at this deal now over 40 years and a grinder of any type has NEVER touched one of my chains for any reason. Not that there's anything wrong with them, but just like filing there is a learning curve involved and it's easy to take too much off with a grinder or "harden" the surface making it difficult if not near impossible to "touch-up" or sharpen with a file in the field.......Cliff

 

[Philbert]

I’m assuming that means 25* angle is more durable than a 35* just not as sharp

Again, define 'sharp'. A razor blade is 'sharp' (very acute angle) but will not last a moment striking a tree 20 times a second. An axe is comparatively dull (more obtuse angle) but can hold up through an entire tree. To me, 'sharp' indicates a fine (and intentional) edge, regardless of the angle of the bevel.

Funny thing it that the 'top plate angle' defines what the cutter looks like from above, its most important effect is probably in shaping the bevel angle of the side plate, since the file profiles both at the same time. I have tried to sketch this in the 'cut away' illustration below. The side plate bevel is what chops through the wood fibers when crosscutting.



Philbert

 

[grizz55chev]

I've ran into a few chains that required sharpening right off the loop. Stihl chain although excellent quality seems to need a little attention more than Oregon.

I've been cutting wood since the mid 1970's and "touch-up" the chain on the saw I'm using every time it gets fueled up. To save time these days I take no less than 3 saws to any outing and just grab another saw if I hit something or run out of fuel.

It takes a little practice to get good at chain sharpening. Helps to use the right size file and highest quality files you can find. I buy Stihl files in 3 packs at our local John Deere dealer, they are good quality and last quite a while.

With most chains I don't start dropping the rakers till the 3rd or 4th sharpening. Taking a bigger "bite" in the wood can create a lot of additional vibration and not nearly as smooth in the cut, especially in hardwoods that have been down for a while.

Type of cutter is a matter of personal preference but it should be chosen based on the job at hand. For super-clean material full chisel is fine, but if the wood has been skidded or pulled to landing you'll find round cutters will continue to cut 3-5 times longer without sharpening than the square cutters.

Been at this deal now over 40 years and a grinder of any type has NEVER touched one of my chains for any reason. Not that there's anything wrong with them, but just like filing there is a learning curve involved and it's easy to take too much off with a grinder or "harden" the surface making it difficult if not near impossible to "touch-up" or sharpen with a file in the field.......Cliff

Spot on cliff! Took yrs of practice, but it’s muscle memory and a good eye that is most important when filing. A good sharp file is a must!

 

[president]

I still have not met anyone stubborn/silly enough to "sharpen" a new chain out of the box!!!!

alot of us take a file stroke or two off the rakers

 

[user 122190]

On MY chains the tops of the cutters are not so flat that a straight edge is stable enough to allow slipping in such a fine feeler gauge to make such measurements to that high a precision. OBVIOUSLY I don't know what I am doing. I am almost certain that my rakers are off quite a bit more then 1/1000 of an inch. Of course, I'm not making fine furniture, only cutting firewood. Even my 16" measurements that I cut my logs to, is marked with a spray can so there is quite a bit of cutting deviation in firewood size. And that is before my wildly inaccurate rakers get involved.

I just can't believe that I am still alive, seeing how crudely my firewood is cut.

A straight edge across the top of the chain and one of these

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[Del_]

On MY chains the tops of the cutters are not so flat that a straight edge is stable enough to allow slipping in such a fine feeler gauge to make such measurements to that high a precision. OBVIOUSLY I don't know what I am doing. I am almost certain that my rakers are off quite a bit more then 1/1000 of an inch. Of course, I'm not making fine furniture, only cutting firewood. Even my 16" measurements that I cut my logs to, is marked with a spray can so there is quite a bit of cutting deviation in firewood size. And that is before my wildly inaccurate rakers get involved.

I just can't believe that I am still alive, seeing how crudely my firewood is cut.

Don't feel bad.

In all fairness your cutting of 10 cords per year is not all that much cutting.

I've cut more than that in a week more times than I care to remember.

Here's a quote that applies to the stand you've taken in this thread:

"Every man takes the limits of his own field of vision for the limits of the world."
Arthur Schopenhauer

 

[user 122190]

In all fairness, most here are wasting their time cutting wood. With such zeal and exacting perfection, most here could be submarine commanders, inventing cold fusion, finding a cure for cancer, discover time travel or interstellar warp speed travel, etc.

A 1/1000 difference between a couple of rakers ruins your day? For the betterment of human kind apply yourselves to something truly great.

Don't feel bad.

In all fairness your cutting of 10 cords per year is not all that much cutting.

I've cut more than that in a week more times than I care to remember.

Here's a quote that applies to the stand you've taken in this thread:

"Every man takes the limits of his own field of vision for the limits of the world."
Arthur Schopenhauer

 

[Tony ray]

Here is a quote for you Del
Every man who sharpens a brand new chain has issues/
Tony Ray

 

[Philbert]

On MY chains the tops of the cutters are not so flat that a straight edge is stable enough to allow slipping in such a fine feeler gauge to make such measurements to that high a precision.

What! You don't have one of these!?!?



Seriously, the thread started out asking about any benefits from sharpening new, out-of-the-box chain (where are you @Doug M ?): a discussion about when 'good' is 'good enough'; which easily leads into esoteric points about sharpening. If there was no interest, folks could be out cutting wood instead of discussing it on the interwebs.

Philbert

 

[user 122190]

Wow! Don't have, or even knew such a thing existed. LOL!

What! You don't have one of these!?!?

View attachment 689227 View attachment 689228

 

[HarleyT]

I drink a lot, so I just put the chain on the saw and go cut wood.
Life is too short to be too anal!!!