New chain vs sharpened.

[Philbert]

"Just one simple tool - a file and the 'willingness' to learn."

How about a handle for the file? Can I have a handle too? Or does that make me a wuss?

Thanks

Philbert

 

[huskihl]

"Just one simple tool - a file and the 'willingness' to learn."

How about a handle for the file? Can I have a handle too? Or does that make me a wuss?

Thanks

Philbert

Lotsa free ones laying on the forest floor. Newbies haven't earned enough credits yet to buy a new handle

 

[Skeans]

No offense. There may be some confusion due to the fact that you and I are discussing two very different chain types, and very different scenarios.

You on the one hand are talking about 'Square Ground' chain, that's being used mostly on a mechanical harvester, and going through approximately 30 chains a week.

As I stated in my previous post, #49, I know nothing about Square Ground chain, and cannot speak about it one way or the other.
It was never popular around my area, so I've never used it and never filed it.

From everything I've ever heard and read, sounds like the Square Ground chain is much more difficult to correctly file by hand due to the complex angles etc., and best sharpened on a proper grinder. So in your circumstances, I'd agree completely, you are much better off using a grinder, especially in that kind of extremely high production situation.

Now - back to 'Round Ground' chain.
Whether it be in a Hand Felling logging operation which I've been, or simply your average Homeowner, Firewood scrounger, or Land clearer etc. - There is no better or quicker way to sharpen your chain than to "Learn to file it Free Hand"

Not only will it BE sharper - it will STAY sharper, because at the first sign of losing it's edge, you will simply shut your saw off, grab your file, touch it up, and go back to work.

No more gadgets and gizmos to buy or carry around with you.

No more carrying multiple chains with you, and swapping out chains when the one on the saw gets dull.

No more continuing to cut with a dull chain 'way longer' than you know you should - Yeah I know, it's a hassle to swap it out, and you want all you can get out of it.

No more getting home from cutting wood with 2 or three dull chains that need sharpened or taken somewhere else to sharpen $$$

No more grinders or grinding wheels to buy

Just one simple tool - a file and the 'willingness' to learn.

Some TIPS for newbies, or anyone trying to learn.

1. Get the right size file - For 3/8 Chisel or Semi-Chisel you'll want to use a 7/32. (That's all you need)
2. Get a GOOD file - no Chi-com junk (Lately I've been using Pferd from Bailey's and I like them)
3. Note for smaller saws - .325 chain is a little more difficult to hand file than 3/8". (A great excuse to get a bigger saw or convert that piss ant chain)
4. Do NOT file an oily chain - Your file will glide across the oil film and not cut correctly, and your file will also get oily and clog with filings etc.
5. To clean the chain - simply gun your throttle lightly a few times while easing the chain against some wood, preferably some dry 'BARK', then immediately shut it off.
6. The chain should now be fairly free of excess oil. (The dryer that chain is, the easier and better it will file)
7. File your chain ON the saw - where you're cutting - No need to take it off or mount it on anything else. Nor do you need to be in your shop or garage.
8. Don't try to file with a 'Loose' chain. You'll get side to side wobble. Tighten your chain to proper operating snugness prior to filing.
9. Now find yourself a log or stump preferably to sit the saw on, or simply set it on the ground. (Those little H shaped stump vices w/thumbscrew are VERY handy - but certainly not a must)
10. Hunker down behind your saw, NOT beside it, and lean your chest down over the engine so that you are looking down onto the top profile of the chain approximately 6 to 8 inches out from the front of the engine, or what feels comfortable to you.
(Perfect scenario is saw sitting on a log length wise- this way you can straddle the log behind the saw - not as much bending down for us older guys, and very comfortable.

Okay, what ya waiting for - get that file going.
5 minutes from now you'll be cuttin' wood again, with a sharp chain

Does it take some time and practice to get proficient? YES absolutely. Don't expect miracles in one day.

But it's not rocket science either, and well worth the effort to master.

Just wondering since when is any harvester chain square ground? Only square ground I know of is 3/8 or 404 saw chain. Harvester is a round either in semi or full chisel there’s a few that do grind them square. Now to your round saw chain saw 28+ I’d bet it’s faster to swap a chain clean a rail vs file every tank, just extremes take my 60” bar are you really going to file that long bar or are you going to swap the chains and grind them for a true cutting cutter? On a longer bar I can find out fast if someone has filed it’s always off side to side.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jchipps]

"Just one simple tool - a file and the 'willingness' to learn."

How about a handle for the file? Can I have a handle too? Or does that make me a wuss?

Thanks

Philbert

Yes, you can use a ‘handle’ if you must.
I won’t call you a wuss

I’ve personally never used any handle at all. That was the way I learned and continues to be my preference.
I did try one once, but found that I have much more control of the file with out one.
The handle makes the tool ‘longer’, and awkward feeling to me.
I prefer my ‘pushing’ hand closer to the work. Just feels better to me.

Regardless of whether you use a handle or not, you should be using both hands when filing.
The pushing hand on the handle end of the file, the other hand on the other end of the file to support and help guide it.

That’s the way I do it.
You may have a better way.

 

[jchipps]

Just wondering since when is any harvester chain square ground? Only square ground I know of is 3/8 or 404 saw chain. Harvester is a round either in semi or full chisel there’s a few that do grind them square. Now to your round saw chain saw 28+ I’d bet it’s faster to swap a chain clean a rail vs file every tank, just extremes take my 60” bar are you really going to file that long bar or are you going to swap the chains and grind them for a true cutting cutter? On a longer bar I can find out fast if someone has filed it’s always off side to side.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Never used a 60” bar, and doubt seriously if most of those reading this thread are using 60 inch bars for cutting their firewood.
I also doubt they are using mechanical harvesters.

I’m an ‘old school’ North Eastern hand feller and yes I will file a 28” chain almost as quickly as you will swap yours out.
But guess what, when I get done at the end of the day, my saw is sharp and ready to roll for the next morning.
I’m also not lugging extra chains around the woods with me, swapping out chains or depending on my skidder operator to bring me one back on his next skid.

PS - I never needed to file my saw ‘every tank’.
Keep your bar out of the ground, and you won’t either

 

[Philbert]

I clean up after disasters. We hit sh*t all the time. Dirt. Rocks. Metal. Roofing. Flying cows . . .

I also maintain saws after new volunteers (just learning) have used them. Might have 8 to 20 chains to recondition.

A file (without a handle) and a 'touch up' just won't make it.

Different strokes for different folks.

Philbert

 

[grizz55chev]

I’m lucky, Phil. I work on a lot of saws for friends, but I refuse to sharpen their chains, I only sharpen my own ( hand file only with a handle ). I have seen more than one saw that was scorched because some knucklehead kept bearing down on a destroyed chain. I will read them the riot act after I put their saw back in working order, can’t stress the need for a sharp chain enough.

 

[Franny K]

A file without a handle should have the tang end heated and bent back in a U shape or something at least 1/4" diameter brazed on. At least the way I hold them.

 

[lambs]

I'm not sawing for production....but there's another reason I'll either touch up a chain or replace it when the saw runs out of gas....I'm usually out of gas too! A few minutes rest for some water and to get that weight out of my hands is a good thing.

 

[jchipps]

I agree Philbert, some tasks require a different approach, such as the very un-ordinary circumstances in which you operate a chainsaw, ie: cutting metal, roofing material, dirt and rocks, and probably some nails and concrete thrown in the mix too, I'd imagine? Definitely not a good mix for a chainsaw.

I'm simply trying to convey to any lurkers who may be following this thread and are 'genuinely interested in hand-filing', but not sure if they can learn, or maybe wondering if it's even worth their effort.

YES it is well worth every minute they put into it, and has such a MYRIAD of benefits.

We are obviously becoming a society of automation, as each generation slips away from old tried and true methods and skills of doing things.
In some cases the new way might be better, but in many cases it's not.

To those of you who have an interest in hand filing, but haven't given it a try, or maybe given up too quickly,
Grab that file and make it your friend. Don't let the Naysayers deter you.

When you get to the point ... and you will ... that you sink that freshly filed chain into a log and feel the pull, as it feeds itself hungrily through the wood, and you realize you did it yourself, with your own 2 hands, there's no better feeling of accomplishment.

Good luck.

 

[Colt Marlington]

"Just one simple tool - a file and the 'willingness' to learn."

How about a handle for the file? Can I have a handle too? Or does that make me a wuss?

Thanks

Philbert

I got a handle for my files.

Thinkin about getting one of them fancy guide things too!

 

[old guy]

Golf balls, drill a hole in a golf ball, they make great handles, I don't buy handles anymore.

 

[grizz55chev]

I got a handle for my files.

Thinkin about getting one of them fancy guide things too!

Handles are laying around everywhere in the woods.

 

[pioneerguy600]

Handles are laying around everywhere in the woods.

I actually have more than one twig as a handle on a files plus lots of different store bought ones. Have some I made from cutting a end off a mop or broom handle back when they were actually made from wood, not the hollow steel or plastic now commonly used.

 

[holeycow]

I prefer no handle, although I have a bunch including a few sticks.

However, I seem to feel the tang in the heel of my hand a lot more these days which means I am developing a habit of not using the whole file. That is slower and wasteful.

I have bent the tang, but don’t as a rule do that.

You guys are a wealth of ideas! I am going to try something small and rounded. I might even try a golf ball, but I think that will be too big for me.

Thx for the freely given ideas!

Ps, I didn’t even know a grinder existed for a powersaw chain until I came here...and I’m pretty sure I have no need for one.

 

[Philbert]

Ps, I didn’t even know a grinder existed for a powersaw chain until I came here...

I first learned that chains were taken in to a shop to be sharpened.

Then I bought a saw that happened to come with an earlier version of the PowerSharp system.

When that stopped working well, a dealer sold me a conventional chain and a basic file holder. I was OK with it, but did not get as consistent teeth as I wanted.

I bought one of the Granberg type file guides, and once I figured out how to use it (directions stink), got very sharp and consistent chains.
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/granberg-file-n-joint-revisited.193630/

Was introduced to a chain grinder when I started volunteering with with a disaster response group - we went through LOTS of chains in a day! But, again, did not get great instruction, and again, the directions stink. Spent a lot of time experimenting and learning about grinders, and have posted a lot of that in threads here on A.S. Also learned a lot from other posters.
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/511a-grinder-improvements-tweaks.197073/

Since then have played around with a number of different file guides and sharpening devices out of curiosity. But I tend to use my Oregon grinder, or a basic file holder, most. I am not offended if someone sharpens differently than I do. I can pretty much sum up my 'sharpening philosophy' in 3 points:

- a sharp chain is important.
- it helps if you know what you are trying to achieve.
- everybody has to find something that works for them.

The middle one might sound kind of snarky, but some people do not know what a sharp cutter looks like, so they never know if they are doing it correctly. They take 3 strokes with a file, or touch a grinding wheel to a cutter, and assume 'it must be sharp now!". Conversely, if you know what a sharp cutter looks like, you can use many different methods to achieve it, although, you will likely have more skill, or a preference, for one over the others.

Philbert

 

[pioneerguy600]

I first learned that chains were taken in to a shop to be sharpened.

Then I bought a saw that happened to come with an earlier version of the PowerSharp system.

When that stopped working well, a dealer sold me a conventional chain and a basic file holder. I was OK with it, but did not get as consistent teeth as I wanted.

I bought one of the Granberg type file guides, and once I figured out how to use it (directions stink), got very sharp and consistent chains.
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/granberg-file-n-joint-revisited.193630/

Was introduced to a chain grinder when I started volunteering with with a disaster response group - we went through LOTS of chains in a day! But, again, did not get great instruction, and again, the directions stink. Spent a lot of time experimenting and learning about grinders, and have posted a lot of that in threads here on A.S. Also learned a lot from other posters.
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/511a-grinder-improvements-tweaks.197073/

Since then have played around with a number of different file guides and sharpening devices out of curiosity. But I tend to use my Oregon grinder, or a basic file holder, most. I am not offended if someone sharpens differently than I do. I can pretty much sum up my 'sharpening philosophy' in 3 points:

- a sharp chain is important
- it helps if you know what you are trying to achieve.
- everybody has to find something that works for them.

The middle one might sound kind of snarky, but some people do not know what a sharp cutter looks like, so they never know if they are doing it correctly. They take 3 strokes with a file, or touch a grinding wheel to a cutter, and assume 'it must be sharp now!". Conversely, if you know what a sharp cutter looks like, you can use many different methods to achieve it, although, you will likely have more skill, or a preference, for one over the others.

Philbert

I like the middle one also, its a hard point to get across to new filers, knowing what a sharp properly shaped cutter looks like is the ,key, component to having a sharp self feeding chain.

 

[holeycow]

The middle comment deserves a trophy, cause that is key.

 

[holeycow]

For a while many years ago I got into the habit of sharpening .325 chain with a file for 3/8 chain. It works pretty well, actually. That is, until you learn better how to file.

Imo

 

[HarleyT]

but did not get as consistent teeth as I wanted.

Huh?