From the current Oregon catalog: Note that since it is narrow kerf .325 chain, it is rated only for saws up to 55cc and bars up to 20 inches.
Philbert
Philbert
New Oregon Narrow Kerf Chain and SpeedCut Guide Bars
- Thread starter Philbert
- Start date
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Why Can't We Be Friends? - 1
Upfront
Couple of caveats:
1. The macro function of my smartphone camera is not great.
2. These chains were not all acquired at the same time - some might be older models or versions.
3. I am more of a woodworker guy than a precision machinist.
That said . . . . I visually compared some of the new, Oregon 95TXL chain, with a couple of similar chains that I had available:
- Oregon 95VP (not 95VPX)
- Husqvarna H30
- Carlton K1
Each of these is a .325" pitch, .o50" gauge, narrow kerf, semi-chisel chain. The Carlton chain was lightly used, the rest were new or NOS.
Low-Kickback?
- The Carlton chain shown lacks any type of low-kickback bumpers (some other Carlton chains have them).
- The 95VP and the H30 have identical low-kickback drive links, and are each classified as 'low-kickback chains'. 95VPX chain (not in photos) has low-kickback drive links similar in appearance to the 95TXL chain, and is classified as a 'low-kickback chain'.
- The 95TXL chain has low-kickback drive links similar in appearance to those on the 95VPX chain, but is not classified as a 'low-kickback chain'.
Confused yet? Oregon says that compliance with the ANSI B175.1 standard is performance based. So, even though it has low-kickback drive links, and offers 'some' kickback reducing advantages, it does not meet the requirements to be labeled as a 'low-kickback chain' based on test fixture performance.
Links to the Oregon product info page, and professional photographs, for these three, similar, chains:
https://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/products/chain/95TXL.htm
https://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/products/chain/95VPX.htm
https://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/products/chain/95VP.htm
Philbert
Upfront
Couple of caveats:
1. The macro function of my smartphone camera is not great.
2. These chains were not all acquired at the same time - some might be older models or versions.
3. I am more of a woodworker guy than a precision machinist.
That said . . . . I visually compared some of the new, Oregon 95TXL chain, with a couple of similar chains that I had available:
- Oregon 95VP (not 95VPX)
- Husqvarna H30
- Carlton K1
Each of these is a .325" pitch, .o50" gauge, narrow kerf, semi-chisel chain. The Carlton chain was lightly used, the rest were new or NOS.
Low-Kickback?
- The Carlton chain shown lacks any type of low-kickback bumpers (some other Carlton chains have them).
- The 95VP and the H30 have identical low-kickback drive links, and are each classified as 'low-kickback chains'. 95VPX chain (not in photos) has low-kickback drive links similar in appearance to the 95TXL chain, and is classified as a 'low-kickback chain'.
- The 95TXL chain has low-kickback drive links similar in appearance to those on the 95VPX chain, but is not classified as a 'low-kickback chain'.
Confused yet? Oregon says that compliance with the ANSI B175.1 standard is performance based. So, even though it has low-kickback drive links, and offers 'some' kickback reducing advantages, it does not meet the requirements to be labeled as a 'low-kickback chain' based on test fixture performance.
Links to the Oregon product info page, and professional photographs, for these three, similar, chains:
https://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/products/chain/95TXL.htm
https://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/products/chain/95VPX.htm
https://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/products/chain/95VP.htm
Philbert
Why Can't We Be Friends? - 2
(they are always so shiny and pretty when new!)
Side View (top to bottom):
95TXL
95VP
H30
K1
Top View (top to bottom):
K1
H30
95VP
95TXL
Oblique Views (top to bottom):
K1
H30
95VP
95TXL
Philbert
(they are always so shiny and pretty when new!)
Side View (top to bottom):
95TXL
95VP
H30
K1
Top View (top to bottom):
K1
H30
95VP
95TXL
Oblique Views (top to bottom):
K1
H30
95VP
95TXL
Philbert
Why Can't We Be Friends? - 3
Visual Differences
Clearly some cosmetic differences. The 'Oregon' logo almost appears to be etched in, instead of stamped. The witness marks on the new chain have a different appearance, and continue down along the side plate. The embossed tie strap is more of a flattened 'X' shape than linear. The 95TXL has oil retention grooves stamped into both sides of the drive links, instead of the holes. Bluing is more noticeable. As mentioned above, the shape of the low kickback drive link bumper looks more like those on the 95VPX chain.
Hook / Grind / Shape
The 95TXL has a more pronounced hook angle than the other chains, and the grind is taken deeper into the gullet. This is consistent with their comments that it is more aggressive 'out of the box'. Not sure how this chain would compare if each of the others was ground identically. There are even noticeable differences in grind between the 'identical' 95VP and H30 chains, which may be a function of different manufacturing dates, or different specs by Husky?
Oregon is recommending a 35/55°/10° grinder setting for the 95TXL, but seems to be encouraging users to file, in order to maintain the factory grind. Specs for the 95VPX were 30°/55°/10°.
The variation in the backs of each cutter is interesting. Note how the Carlton cutters are almost square, while the others have different degrees of clipping.
It is hard to tell if the radius of curve along the edge of these semi-chisel chains varies by much. I would need more precision measuring ability than I have. There may be significant differences in many cutter angles that are significant in controlled tests, but not obvious to my eyes.
Cutter Length
Cutter length also varies among the four samples shown, with the Carlton and Husqvarna chains being around 0.020" longer. Again, some of this may be due to different manufacturing dates, or it may be due to the grind; especially the differences between the 'identical' 95VP and H30 chains.
Significant?
Oregon has put a lot of time and money into this new chain, so I have to assume that there were significant differences under controlled testing. I hope to try some of this side-by-side with the 95VP chain at an upcoming GTG in a few weeks, to see if it makes a practical difference for general cutting. Since 95TXL will be replacing 95VPX, it is what we will be buying down the road.
Philbert
Visual Differences
Clearly some cosmetic differences. The 'Oregon' logo almost appears to be etched in, instead of stamped. The witness marks on the new chain have a different appearance, and continue down along the side plate. The embossed tie strap is more of a flattened 'X' shape than linear. The 95TXL has oil retention grooves stamped into both sides of the drive links, instead of the holes. Bluing is more noticeable. As mentioned above, the shape of the low kickback drive link bumper looks more like those on the 95VPX chain.
Hook / Grind / Shape
The 95TXL has a more pronounced hook angle than the other chains, and the grind is taken deeper into the gullet. This is consistent with their comments that it is more aggressive 'out of the box'. Not sure how this chain would compare if each of the others was ground identically. There are even noticeable differences in grind between the 'identical' 95VP and H30 chains, which may be a function of different manufacturing dates, or different specs by Husky?
Oregon is recommending a 35/55°/10° grinder setting for the 95TXL, but seems to be encouraging users to file, in order to maintain the factory grind. Specs for the 95VPX were 30°/55°/10°.
The variation in the backs of each cutter is interesting. Note how the Carlton cutters are almost square, while the others have different degrees of clipping.
It is hard to tell if the radius of curve along the edge of these semi-chisel chains varies by much. I would need more precision measuring ability than I have. There may be significant differences in many cutter angles that are significant in controlled tests, but not obvious to my eyes.
Cutter Length
Cutter length also varies among the four samples shown, with the Carlton and Husqvarna chains being around 0.020" longer. Again, some of this may be due to different manufacturing dates, or it may be due to the grind; especially the differences between the 'identical' 95VP and H30 chains.
Significant?
Oregon has put a lot of time and money into this new chain, so I have to assume that there were significant differences under controlled testing. I hope to try some of this side-by-side with the 95VP chain at an upcoming GTG in a few weeks, to see if it makes a practical difference for general cutting. Since 95TXL will be replacing 95VPX, it is what we will be buying down the road.
Philbert
It looks the improvement is in the stamping of the tie strap and slots of sorts on the sides of the drive link. I think I see the slots on both sides of all the drive links. Otherwise the difference seems the Carlton one K1 is simpler. not offset depth gauge, no bumper tie strap, no oiling features on tie strap or drive link and as mentioned the heel.
Yes, the oil carrying grooves are on both sides of the new 95TXL chain.
The Carlton chain is available with bumper links (K1NK-BL). Bailey's sells it both ways (Woodland Pro 20NK / 20NKB). The one shown is just something I had, so I included it for comparison. STIHL does not offer a narrow kerf chain, as far as I know.
Interesting point on the offset depth gauges on the other 3 chains. Wonder how that affects chain tracking and performance. Carton even looks like a lower profile cutter. Some of this might have to be tested under controlled conditions - otherwise, it is just speculation.
Philbert
SawTroll
Information Collector
It lacks separate bumpers - but it has very large and ramped rakers, that also is a low-kickback feature.
After the Stihl RSK was discontinued, I don't think there is a single current chain model in .325 or 3/8" that doesn't have any kind of low-kickback feature. It can be ramps on the drivers, large ramped rakers or bumpers on the tie straps - all in various shapes and sizes. Then there are designs like the Oregon vanguard....
That isn't confusing at all, but rather helps tidy the mess of different designs up a bit.
To me it is perfectly logic that what decides if the chain is "green" or "yellow" are the results (performance) recorded during the ANSI testing - and not subjective opinions on what looks like what.
Such subjective (and uneducated) opinions are way too common on the different saw forums, and even among those who make "conversion tables" between different brands/models.
SawTroll
Information Collector
None of the pictured chains have bumper tie straps. That is a feature that is getting more and more unusual, likely for good reasons. There is a version of the Carlton that has it though.
Another difference with the Carlton is that it doesn't have a low-vibe chassis.
You said the Carlton is simpler (which is true) - but it also is a cruder chain.
I should have typed bumper drive link in post 86.
I also notice the discontinuing of chain models that the cutting edge is is close to the depth gague in favor of the cutting part moving rearward, getting longer and the depth gauge moving forward. 33 sl and lg and 91vx as examples. The 33 sl and lg both hardly have enough space for the file when new.
Just a question in general, Is this 95TXL green label chain on a 10 tooth nose bar and of what length bar?
It is 'yellow' chain, based on performance tests.
Philbert
Philbert
SawTroll
Information Collector
Something that is a pity, is that Oregon didn't make a chisel version as well when they redesigned the 95VPX into the TXL, as the lack of a chisel option keep many people from using .325NK.
SawTroll
Information Collector
That's interesting, as it sounds like an indication that they may need to keep the 95VPX in production as well as the TXL...
I can't tell you what they are thinking. What they are saying is that 95TXL is replacing 95VPX. They are describing it as more of a 'professional' chain.
Interesting point (no pun intended) on the chisel chain. I know of at least one potential customer in Norway!
Philbert
SawTroll
Information Collector
If it is "yellow", that is of course consistent with "more professional". The issue I see is that a lot of 50cc and smaller saws mostly are sold with the "green" 95VPX chain today, and I doubt all the brands involved will be happy with swapping to a "yellow" chain. I'm not sure ANSI will be happy either, in the US.
The ANSI thing may of course solve itself if Husky starts making their own "green" .325NK chain (which I assume they will) - but where is the gain for Oregon then? Cutting losses only, by offering a more professional option as replacement/aftermarket chain?
Another interesting observation is that the new Oregon Speedcut bars seem to have "borrowed" features from the Husky Techlite bars.
It could be quite interesting to compare the new "pro" NK bars from Husky with the Speedcut and the Sugihara NK bars - but for my part only if there was a chisel chain option....
I had a chance to try the 95TXL chains Saturday at the Staples, MN GTG. Temps were in the low to mid 20's. I used my Husqvarna 353 with 16" and 20" bars, and cut some (possibly frozen?) red oak and spruce of varying diameters, alternating between chains every 3 cuts or so, to compare them in 'the same' wood.
I had planned on comparing the new chains with 'new-out-of the-box' 95VP chains to be objective. But I grabbed a lightly used (one sharpening?) loop of Carlton K1NK (no drive link bumper) for the 16-inch bar, by mistake. And the new loop of 95VP I grabbed for the 20-inch bar had 4 backwards cutters (dealer spun)! So I had to swap that one for a (twice sharpened?) loop of very similar Husqvarna H30 chain in very good condition.
The Carlton chain cut noticeably faster, even in the smaller diameter wood. The new loop of 95TXL appeared to perform very similarly to the H30 chain.
The different chains, obviously, had different (or no) drive link bumpers; different grind angles; and were at different points in their wear life, so some may not describe these as completely 'fair' or 'objective' comparisons. I was just comparing performance between these chains in actual cutting conditions. And it is fair to compare different chains as well.
I was surprised. I was expecting a noticeably faster, more aggressive chain, possibly with more 'self-feeding' action, due to the manufacturer's description and the pronounced cutter hook. It's not that the 95TXL chain did not cut well - it did. But I did not notice an improvement over these comparison chains, under the conditions described.
After the side-by-side comparisons, I also tried the 95TXL in a variety of other cutting situations, including bore cutting and 'noodling', and found it to cut acceptably well.
Bottom line? In this comparison, under these conditions, the 95TXL chains cut acceptably, but did not show a noticeable improvement over the other chains. I would not hesitate to use it, but would not be in a hurry to replace my existing chains. Not sure if things will change with use and wear.
Philbert
I had planned on comparing the new chains with 'new-out-of the-box' 95VP chains to be objective. But I grabbed a lightly used (one sharpening?) loop of Carlton K1NK (no drive link bumper) for the 16-inch bar, by mistake. And the new loop of 95VP I grabbed for the 20-inch bar had 4 backwards cutters (dealer spun)! So I had to swap that one for a (twice sharpened?) loop of very similar Husqvarna H30 chain in very good condition.
The Carlton chain cut noticeably faster, even in the smaller diameter wood. The new loop of 95TXL appeared to perform very similarly to the H30 chain.
The different chains, obviously, had different (or no) drive link bumpers; different grind angles; and were at different points in their wear life, so some may not describe these as completely 'fair' or 'objective' comparisons. I was just comparing performance between these chains in actual cutting conditions. And it is fair to compare different chains as well.
I was surprised. I was expecting a noticeably faster, more aggressive chain, possibly with more 'self-feeding' action, due to the manufacturer's description and the pronounced cutter hook. It's not that the 95TXL chain did not cut well - it did. But I did not notice an improvement over these comparison chains, under the conditions described.
After the side-by-side comparisons, I also tried the 95TXL in a variety of other cutting situations, including bore cutting and 'noodling', and found it to cut acceptably well.
Bottom line? In this comparison, under these conditions, the 95TXL chains cut acceptably, but did not show a noticeable improvement over the other chains. I would not hesitate to use it, but would not be in a hurry to replace my existing chains. Not sure if things will change with use and wear.
Philbert
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