New SpeedPro Kinetic Log Splitter from TSC...

[philwillmt]

I'm trying compare the impact load of a Suburban going 5mph crashing into a wall vs. a yugo going 10mph crashing into a wall. ie SS with 75lb flywheels vs Speedpro with 60lbs flywheels. From my experience messing around with my supersplit it really doesn't matter how fast the flywheel is spinning, its how fast the pinion is spinning.

CUCV,

The SpeedPro is advertised as having "two 70 lb. flywheels capable of producing up to 28 tons* of splitting force." Also, unless I missed something on the Super Split and DR Rapid Fire videos, the pinion shaft RPM is the exact same as the flywheel RPM, as the flywheels are mounted to the pinion shaft...just like the SpeedPro.

 

[Cmccul8146]

Rack & Pinion Steel

So I'm guessing rack and pinion are not A36 steel.

You are correct CUCV. The rack & pinion are heat treated alloys, while A36 is nothing more than mild, low carbon hot rolled steel. I used A36 disks cut from 2" thick plate to machine the flywheels for my homebuilt splitter. I releived both sides of the flywheels, bored them & welded in 2 1/2 " keyed hubs for the pinion shaft. Each flywheel blank weighed 148.21 lbs before machining, and afterwards they weigh 102 lbs each. My pinion pitch diameter is 2.500 inches ,whereas the SS pinion PD is approximately 1.500. I HAVE to run my splitter at lower engine speed, as ram travels 7.854 inches for 1 revolution of the flywheels. SS J model uses 72 lb flywheels, so the extra 30lbs each on mine allow me to split very efficently at only 160 or so flywheel rpm. Also my A36 machined flywheels won't explode as cast iron flywheels can if they are spun too fast. If I remember correctly, Paul at SS told me 300 rpm was the maximum safe speed for the cast iron flywheels. or else I read in somewhere.

What is the weight of your 3rd flywheel?

 

[Jules083]

Basically when I did the math out I came out with the stock SS with more impact force than the Speedpro. So using the analogy below my modified SS sees the most damage, second the stock SS and last the speedpro. However, I believe my assumptions on the Speedpro are to great to be conclusive but my math does show that the slower heavier vehicle can see more damage.

Not trying to dispute your math, but to add a thought I just had. Flywheel weight isn't as important as where the weight is located. What I mean by this is a flywheel that is light in the center but heavy on the outside will have more energy than a flywheel that is heavier on the inside but lighter on the outside, with all else being equal. The splitters may have an equal weight distribution, I don't know. If so then my point doesn't matter. I can't remember what my speedpro or SS flywheels look like right now, I never thought to pay attention to that.

 

[Dozer Man]

Hey Doz, there's NO, repeat NO, sarcasm here implied or meant. Get a clear definition of what sarcasm is. If you can't understand the words, ask for an explanation. You read too much into the thin skin syndrome demo-ed by your post.

Read again: it is a compliment about the expertise and detail about machines. It is interesting and informative....for me. You need to cease making Straw Dog structures.
This was not a post for your "appreciation". It was as said and requested. Get over it Doz. "You are not the target" ( A. Huxley)

Now again: anyone have that kind of experience and expertise about electric splitters mentioned ? ( No, not you Doz :msp_sneaky: ).

Lb,
My apologies, thought you were just another da joining in on the speedpro bashing. At first read, I just never dreamed it was a serious request. I'll try to grow some thicker skin, like yours.

Here's my eval anyway...they both look slow.

 

[logbutcher]

Nice post Doz...thanks.

Yes, electrics are slower for similar power to engines. I don't need speed; need quiet. Next winter's 7.5 cord is bucked and stacked for splitting in April. The ground has been hard, and little snow....an easy harvest this year. Tonight and the last couple have been 3 Dog Nights making up for the warm Fall and warm early winter. My 22T TroyBilt is going: loud, fussy in cold, eats fuel, takes maintenance.

The SuperSplit electric would be perfect (great machine BTW if you need speed and power with electric quiet ), but at ~ $3000. and rewiring for 220v is not in my plans. Budget is more in the $1000. range. My single malt budget would take a hit.:msp_angry:

 

[Dozer Man]

Stock SuberSplit = Ford Explorer doing 35mph
CUCV's SuperSplit (xtra flywheel) = Ford Excursion doing 35mph
Stock SS with 'almost' double velocity = Ford Exploreer doing 69mph.

I'll take the excursion, then the 35mph explorer, but I definitely wouldn't want to be in the 69mph explorer! Aw crap........lol

Here's a question. Are we talking about which scenario is going to do more damage to the vehicle? Or to the tree it is hitting??

 

[Dozer Man]

Nice post Doz...thanks.

Yes, electrics are slower for similar power to engines. I don't need speed; need quiet. Next winter's 7.5 cord is bucked and stacked for splitting in April. The ground has been hard, and little snow....an easy harvest this year. Tonight and the last couple have been 3 Dog Nights making up for the warm Fall and warm early winter. My 22T TroyBilt is going: loud, fussy in cold, eats fuel, takes maintenance.

The SuperSplit electric would be perfect (great machine BTW if you need speed and power with electric quiet ), but at ~ $3000. and rewiring for 220v is not in my plans. Budget is more in the $1000. range. My single malt budget would take a hit.:msp_angry:

You've probly seen this, but...Electric Log Splitter - YouTube

I believe this is a video of the ramsplitter(not sure how current). It's faster than what I thought it would be, being electric. A production table on it would help alot (SS table would be perfect for this splitter). And get it up higher so you're not hunched over all the time. My back would be killing me after no time with it the way it is.

Watching the DR video, it looks like it's ram speed is slower, but it splits in both directions. And, the DR sits up higher and already has a production table (it's nice not to have to pick your splits up off the ground every time).

No, they are not as fast as a kinetic splitter. They're hydraulic, they're not supposed to be. But, they do split wood repititiously! That is the end product we are all striving for.

I would love to recommend for you to get a speedpro and convert it to electric (let me know the gear ratio). With the proper gearing, I think it be very easy to do, once you know the operating rpm of the electric motor. Who knows, Speeco might have an electric speedpro on the horizon, but I'm sure it will be well north of $1000.

Good luck.

Logbutcher...I'll start saving for that bottle of 12 yr. old, when this one gets low !!!

 

[logbutcher]

A neighbor has used a SS electric for over 15 years with no problems....and bought used out of a divorce settlement ( never say "The Wife" ). A new one is out of the budget @ an easy $3000.; used rarely come on the market here in Maine. Anyone want to give their's up ?

The Ramsplitter 16 or 20 ton would do, also has a good rep. Looking at the 'build' compared to the DR 10 T with no side tables, exposed hoses, and an I-Beam it looks less robust than the DR. DR has a 6 month trial, no questions asked for return ( pay shipping ), and excellent parts and customer service available. Prices for either are close.

P.S. It is Laphroaig 10 year old, now running close to $50. a fifth. PM for this address.:alien2:

 

[Naked Arborist]

Thanks Guys

Well, I've spent too much time reading this thread and waiting for Speedco to clean up their mess. Now it's time to go buy a rack and pinion, build my own, stop wasting time waiting on another companies inferior machine.

Thanks to all for the great info posted here. I'm sure the machine will be far better than theirs in the end by using all the great info posted on this site and others.

 

[schaaed1]

Stock SuberSplit = Ford Explorer doing 35mph
CUCV's SuperSplit (xtra flywheel) = Ford Excursion doing 35mph
Stock SS with 'almost' double velocity = Ford Exploreer doing 69mph.

I'll take the excursion, then the 35mph explorer, but I definitely wouldn't want to be in the 69mph explorer! Aw crap........lol

Here's a question. Are we talking about which scenario is going to do more damage to the vehicle? Or to the tree it is hitting??

Does it matter???

Newton's third law of motion: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.:wink2:

Dozer - Looking at your stock clutch, If someone was to turn the metal on the pulley down on a lathe ... making a shaft on the clutch. How small of a diam could you get down to and still have a little beef to mount a pully on?

 

[CUCV]

Thanks phil, I read somewere else that they were 60lbs but checked with the speedpro website and you are correct.
Again I made tons of ASSumptions about the Speedpro when I ran the rough calcs., most notably the mass of the flywheels, mass center of inertia, pinion pitch diameter and flywheel rpm. At 70lbs flywheels the speedpro creates more force than the SS in my calcs with all my ASSumptions.

I'm trying compare the impact load of a Suburban going 5mph crashing into a wall vs. a yugo going 10mph crashing into a wall. ie SS with 75lb flywheels vs Speedpro with 60lbs flywheels. From my experience messing around with my supersplit it really doesn't matter how fast the flywheel is spinning, its how fast the pinion is spinning.

CUCV,

The SpeedPro is advertised as having "two 70 lb. flywheels capable of producing up to 28 tons* of splitting force." Also, unless I missed something on the Super Split and DR Rapid Fire videos, the pinion shaft RPM is the exact same as the flywheel RPM, as the flywheels are mounted to the pinion shaft...just like the SpeedPro.

I agree that it does matter where the mass is, I can easily calculate the mass center of inertia of the SS flywheel because I can go in the garage and take accurate measurements, not owning a Speedpro I made some assumption one being the flywheel weight at 60lbs not 70lbs.


Jules083
Originally Posted by CUCV
Basically when I did the math out I came out with the stock SS with more impact force than the Speedpro. So using the analogy below my modified SS sees the most damage, second the stock SS and last the speedpro. However, I believe my assumptions on the Speedpro are to great to be conclusive but my math does show that the slower heavier vehicle can see more damage.
Not trying to dispute your math, but to add a thought I just had. Flywheel weight isn't as important as where the weight is located. What I mean by this is a flywheel that is light in the center but heavy on the outside will have more energy than a flywheel that is heavier on the inside but lighter on the outside, with all else being equal. The splitters may have an equal weight distribution, I don't know. If so then my point doesn't matter. I can't remember what my speedpro or SS flywheels look like right now, I never thought to pay attention to that.


The A36 comment was sarcasm.

That is great you built your own, I would love to find the time to build one from the ground up.

Cast flywheels run at speeds orders of magnitute greater than 300rpm but each application, steel or cast should be analysed.

I haven't run numbers on my SS in over 12 years til now. I will have to measure up the extra flywheel to calculate its mass. The extra flywheel on my electric SS has a heavier flywheel than the gas model.





Cmccul8146
Rack & Pinion Steel

So I'm guessing rack and pinion are not A36 steel.

You are correct CUCV. The rack & pinion are heat treated alloys, while A36 is nothing more than mild, low carbon hot rolled steel. I used A36 disks cut from 2" thick plate to machine the flywheels for my homebuilt splitter. I releived both sides of the flywheels, bored them & welded in 2 1/2 " keyed hubs for the pinion shaft. Each flywheel blank weighed 148.21 lbs before machining, and afterwards they weigh 102 lbs each. My pinion pitch diameter is 2.500 inches ,whereas the SS pinion PD is approximately 1.500. I HAVE to run my splitter at lower engine speed, as ram travels 7.854 inches for 1 revolution of the flywheels. SS J model uses 72 lb flywheels, so the extra 30lbs each on mine allow me to split very efficently at only 160 or so flywheel rpm. Also my A36 machined flywheels won't explode as cast iron flywheels can if they are spun too fast. If I remember correctly, Paul at SS told me 300 rpm was the maximum safe speed for the cast iron flywheels. or else I read in somewhere.

What is the weight of your 3rd flywheel?

 

[Dozer Man]

Does it matter???

Newton's third law of motion: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.:wink2:

Dozer - Looking at your stock clutch, If someone was to turn the metal on the pulley down on a lathe ... making a shaft on the clutch. How small of a diam could you get down to and still have a little beef to mount a pully on?

If it rains tomorrow, I will get some "under the hood" pics of my spdpro. Hopefully I can get good enough pics to see a tape measure. I will post them soon as I can.

 

[schaaed1]

At 70lbs flywheels the speedpro creates more force than the SS in my calcs with all my ASSumptions.

That actually follows with each brands 'sales pitch' as well. If I remember right, SS says 14-24 tons and Speeco says 'up to 28 tons' ... or something like that (remembering from what I read yeaterday).

If it rains tomorrow, I will get some "under the hood" pics of my spdpro. Hopefully I can get good enough pics to see a tape measure. I will post them soon as I can.

The big question will be wiith the clutch pulley turned down in a lathe ... can we get that stub small snough to fit into the smalller sized pulley. Of course that will also depend on how much we can bore out a solid pulley ... without messing it up.

 

[CRThomas]

Dr

Not having to deal with the 2 handed operation is worth at least 1k for me. That would be a deal breaker. They must not use these before the sell them because that log cradle would be a big pain in the butt. When splitting with these types of splitter it is faster and easier on you to be able to slide the wood back to the beam. Lifting it on the cradle will really slow you down and wear you out. I give them credit for trying to make it towable. If I want to tow mine I just use a 4x8 tilt trailer. I would consider the DR before I would buy this one. I still favor the SS over both though. These things work and will outsplit a normal hydraulic hands down even with log cradle. You will have this machine for 20years spend a few extra dollars and get the good one.


Scott

my friend bought one and his big stuff he has to bring it to me because he sold his 3 point splitter. He said the DR is great for perfect wood get into big stuff or knotty stuff. But as long as it's straight grain and small it is a super machine. Before you buy take that in to account later gang. I stick with my 3 hydraulics they faster than me and I don't do about a 50 cord a year more or less so I my self don't need a speedy machine but different strokes for different folks later STL

 

[Cmccul8146]

my friend bought one and his big stuff he has to bring it to me because he sold his 3 point splitter. He said the DR is great for perfect wood get into big stuff or knotty stuff. But as long as it's straight grain and small it is a super machine. Before you buy take that in to account later gang. I stick with my 3 hydraulics they faster than me and I don't do about a 50 cord a year more or less so I my self don't need a speedy machine but different strokes for different folks later STL

Sounds like your friend hasn't learned to read the wood well enough to know how to split big or nasty pieces with a kinetic splitter yet. I only split about 6 to 8 cords per year for me & a couple of friends, but we can get it done VERY FAST, & then we have more time to hunt, fish, saw lumber on my bandmill, go 4 wheeling, or whatever else we want to do. No point in spending all our free time cutting & splitting wood when we don't have to.

 

[KiwiBro]

Sounds like your friend hasn't learned to read the wood well enough to know how to split big or nasty pieces with a kinetic splitter yet. I only...

Horses for courses.
There is every chance someone doing enough big and nasty (note the subjectivity of both 'big' and 'nasty') stuff is going to be better off having a grunty hydraulic to go with their shop-bought (as opposed to a self-built with more inertia) kinetic, regardless of how well they 'read the wood'.
I just don't think it's credible to suggest a kinetic (at least the ones I see by SS, DR, and SP) will do everything including making the morning coffee and that it is a user's inexperience alone that explains why they may choke on big and nasty stuff.

 

[CRThomas]

Firewood big

Horses for courses.
There is every chance someone doing enough big and nasty (note the subjectivity of both 'big' and 'nasty') stuff is going to be better off having a grunty hydraulic to go with their shop-bought (as opposed to a self-built with more inertia) kinetic, regardless of how well they 'read the wood'.
I just don't think it's credible to suggest a kinetic (at least the ones I see by SS, DR, and SP) will do everything including making the morning coffee and that it is a user's inexperience alone that explains why they may choke on big and nasty stuff.

My tractor will pickup 1200 lb minus the 200 lb forks I put logs on my splitter that make my tractor light in the back end will a DR handle that and it is rock cherry. Later

 

[Cmccul8146]

My tractor will pickup 1200 lb minus the 200 lb forks I put logs on my splitter that make my tractor light in the back end will a DR handle that and it is rock cherry. Later

What length & diameter are you splitting that weighs nearly 1000 lbs? Like to see a pic of that. Too much logging going on around here for trees to get that big. Biggest I've split was a 26" diameter red oak, cut to 18" long. That weighed 315 lbs, & was loaded onto the splitter with my forklift. Have a 16 ft long red oak now, 29" tapering down to 26", but I'm going to saw it into 6/4 lumber for a truck floor for a guy. That log is roughly 66 cu. ft., or just over a half cord. More money in the lumber than firewood, lots less work, and will still have lots of firewood from the slabs.

 

[Dozer Man]

24-28 Inch Rounds

What length & diameter are you splitting that weighs nearly 1000 lbs? Like to see a pic of that. Too much logging going on around here for trees to get that big. Biggest I've split was a 26" diameter red oak, cut to 18" long. That weighed 315 lbs, & was loaded onto the splitter with my forklift. Have a 16 ft long red oak now, 29" tapering down to 26", but I'm going to saw it into 6/4 lumber for a truck floor for a guy. That log is roughly 66 cu. ft., or just over a half cord. More money in the lumber than firewood, lots less work, and will still have lots of firewood from the slabs.

Cmccul8146, I'll take your side, even with my speedpro. Granted, I had some help lifting some of it onto the log cradle, but I've split several 24-28 inch rounds of white oak, pin oak, ash, red oak, black walnut etc. Obviously it all had some knots otherwise most would have gone to the mill. Only prob is catching the halves before they hit the ground. But the halves are a lot easier to manage than the wholes.

Not counting sawing, my wife and I can stuff my shortbed in 20 minutes (1/3 cord). No, I don't make a habit of bucking and splitting the great big stuff. Although I do seem to have a lot of it this year. If needed, I have no problem noodling. But the only thing I will be using my old hydro for is quartering to a manageble size.

Just my opinion fwiw.

 

[wildeswood]

I am in Maine. I have been having several problems with my speedpro. I called local TSC store today and they told me that Speeco has a set screw recall. That is supposedly why they stopped sales up here.