New to this site, and professional tree work

[GottaCut]

Well it sure is nice to find a site like this, I've been a member over at Lawnsite for a while and I just saw a post over there with this address in it. A little about myself, I been doing lawn care and such for a bit over 5 years now with a random tree job thrown in here and there the first couple of those years. In the beginning of my second year I got to do a big job and I fell in love with tree work. In retrospect I did a horrible job that I've learned any decent tree trimmer would never want there name on, I topped two big locusts. Took off about the top 15' (they were probably 55' to begin with). Before I get flamed I should mention that I work for someone, not myself. Now of course the things look terrible with crazy water sprouts all over.
That leads me to my first question, how much of the tree's should I clean out to try and get them looking better?
Also I have never climbed using ropes or any other gear, I just placed an order for 120' x.5" climbing line, Klein adjustable gaffs, Weaver extra wide back saddle, and a flip line with microscender. I think learning to use everything will be easy enough, I also have the "Tree Climbers Companion", but using the rope to climb is something that I think will be a bit more tricky. Any suggestions for beginner methods to use a rope to get around in a tree with? Any videos I can order? Thanks guys, I hope to be as knowledgeable as some of you whose posts I've read!

 

[kennertree]

Go to the isa website and order An Illustrated Guide to Pruning by Edward F. Gilman. It will teach ya all you need to know about pruning.

 

[joesawer]

Welcome.
I wish this site had been avaliable to me when I first started.

 

[SilentElk]

Kenner had some good advice. Also, your book 'Tree Climbers Companion' is an excellent book and will tell you alot about climbing and such. However, you might stop and watch a tree company in action if you happen to see one of them working. Watch how they do things. There is ton of tricks of the trade.

Also, the gaffs are very useful but you should consider them for removals only. Gaffs tend to leave unsightly bad marks/gouges in the bark and are often a sign of a lesser tree trimmer on a trim.

 

[CoreyTMorine]

You wanna buy a book and some videos and then go out and start working in a tree? Are you mad? This isn’t a trade that you can self teach, you don’t know what’s safe and what isn’t, therefore you are going to do many unsafe things while learning on your own. How do you know the difference between a safe tie in point and an unsafe one, what if that TIP breaks out while you are up there swinging around? What if the whole tree breaks apart and crashes down on top of you? It can happen, and then you are going to die a painful, unhappy, stupid death, that or be confined to a wheelchair for the rest of your life. The only way to become a qualified tree worker is through an apprenticeship, 3 to 5 years, and that is only the basics. Go and hire on with a good tree company before you kill yourself.

Kennertree, Joesawer, and SilentElk; the three of you know better than to encourage that sort of thing. Lets all go over to accidents and injuries for a while and refresh ourselves. Click HERE:blob6: if you dare.

 

[BostonBull]

Gaffs are a great investment, but are ONLY TO BE USED ON REMOVALS!!!!!!

Never use gaffs on a tree that will be left standing.

The best way to get used to climbing with ropes is low and slow. Only go up as far as you are comfortable to fall from.

Try and get a recreaional climb going in your area with some more experienced climbers.

Read as much as you can here and ask questions.

 

[kennertree]

You wanna buy a book and some videos and then go out and start working in a tree? Are you mad? This isn’t a trade that you can self teach, you don’t know what’s safe and what isn’t, therefore you are going to do many unsafe things while learning on your own. How do you know the difference between a safe tie in point and an unsafe one, what if that TIP breaks out while you are up there swinging around? What if the whole tree breaks apart and crashes down on top of you? It can happen, and then you are going to die a painful, unhappy, stupid death, that or be confined to a wheelchair for the rest of your life. The only way to become a qualified tree worker is through an apprenticeship, 3 to 5 years, and that is only the basics. Go and hire on with a good tree company before you kill yourself.

Kennertree, Joesawer, and SilentElk; the three of you know better than to encourage that sort of thing. Lets all go over to accidents and injuries for a while and refresh ourselves. Click HERE:blob6: if you dare.

I was just answering in regards of proper pruning techniques, climbing is another thing. Its best to get some form of training, either working for a company or taking some arbormaster traing courses.

 

[Sprig]

Some excellent points gents.
I think it is great advice to go and find a climbing group to learn the basic ropes, they will have the patience to teach you the basics and won't be worried about yer wages ect.. Though a slightly different ball of wax than removal climbing it'll give you some practicle height and knot experience that you can carry with you into your next adventure. Find a good co. with people you get along with and are willing to pass on their knowlege would be the next big step imho.
Good luck, work safe, and welcome to the site!!



Serge

 

[clearance]

I advise working for a tree service first, but if you are determined to learn on your own, here goes. Spurs/gaffs are the safer way to climb, there was a poll taken on this site by someone who is against my evil ways of spurring every tree and spurs won out as the safest. So, be safe, climb with spurs and a steelcore, when you get comfortable in the trees using a chainsaw, then read up on spurless climbing and do it, I guess.

 

[BostonBull]

I advise working for a tree service first, but if you are determined to learn on your own, here goes. Spurs/gaffs are the safer way to climb, there was a poll taken on this site by someone who is against my evil ways of spurring every tree and spurs won out as the safest. So, be safe, climb with spurs and a steelcore, when you get comfortable in the trees using a chainsaw, then read up on spurless climbing and do it, I guess.

your such a debbie downer! Every post is against proper tree work and advanced climbing techniques.

yes hooks are the safest way to generally climb a tree. They are also the worst FOR the tree.

Just because you could careless about trees, and are too lazy to learn how o climb without hooks doesnt mean you should go suggesting it to every other person trying to learn.

Your a hack, and dont care about trees, I am embarassed to say you are a fellow tree worker!

Stop being so negative, admit that hooks are bad for a tree and that your too lazy to learn how to climb without them! :censored:

 

[jomoco]

Professional Advice

I advise working for a tree service first, but if you are determined to learn on your own, here goes. Spurs/gaffs are the safer way to climb, there was a poll taken on this site by someone who is against my evil ways of spurring every tree and spurs won out as the safest. So, be safe, climb with spurs and a steelcore, when you get comfortable in the trees using a chainsaw, then read up on spurless climbing and do it, I guess.

Hey there GottaCut,

Please bear in mind that some of the advice you may receive from some well intentioned guys on this site will in reality back fire on you in the professional arborist arena.

No professional arborist organization that I'm aware of advises or recommends the use of gaffs to prune any live tree. There are thousands of beginning climbers that have successfully been trained to prune to industry standards without the use of gaffs, bear that in mind and you'll go far as a professional, it's well worth the effort.

I see you're in the Chicago area. John Hendricksen owns a very large reputable professional tree service there called The Care of Trees. Look in your yellow pages and give that outfit a call. I've met John and he's a great guy that puts proper training and education foremost in his company. It would be an excellent place to get started if you want to make a career of arboriculture.

Best of luck,

jomoco

 

[clearance]

your such a debbie downer! Every post is against proper tree work and advanced climbing techniques.

yes hooks are the safest way to generally climb a tree. They are also the worst FOR the tree.

Just because you could careless about trees, and are too lazy to learn how o climb without hooks doesnt mean you should go suggesting it to every other person trying to learn.

Your a hack, and dont care about trees, I am embarassed to say you are a fellow tree worker!

Stop being so negative, admit that hooks are bad for a tree and that your too lazy to learn how to climb without them! :censored:

Every post? I think not. I care about myself first and also this guy before any tree, trees come third, people, powerlines/houses and then trees. Every utility guy in this province climbs with spurs, always, spurless climbing is for people climbing thin barked high asthetic value specimen trees here, thats it. Maybe hooks are bad for trees, so what, I have never seen one killed from spurs and I have climbed and trimmed thousands of them around powerlines, many of which had been climbed before with spurs and will be climbed again with spurs. This guy seems determined to climb regardless of good advice, I want to see him live. I am going to refrain from insulting you B.B., all I have to do is look at video of guys humping up trees and I laugh.

 

[BostonBull]

Every post? I think not. I care about myself first and also this guy before any tree, trees come third, people, powerlines/houses and then trees. Every utility guy in this province climbs with spurs, always, spurless climbing is for people climbing thin barked high asthetic value specimen trees here, thats it. Maybe hooks are bad for trees, so what, I have never seen one killed from spurs and I have climbed and trimmed thousands of them around powerlines, many of which had been climbed before with spurs and will be climbed again with spurs. This guy seems determined to climb regardless of good advice, I want to see him live. I am going to refrain from insulting you B.B., all I have to do is look at video of guys humping up trees and I laugh.

You dont climb and "high value" species? I consider every tree a high value. especially when you think about a trees importance and value to our existance. Spurs DO kill trees thats why NO Arborist organization will endorse the use of them while pruning.

You laugh because your a JOKE!

You are too lazy, and could careless what others in your trade think of you to learn how to climb without hooks. Go ahead and insult me, if that makes you feel better about you lack of climing ability.

 

[clearance]

You dont climb and "high value" species? I consider every tree a high value. especially when you think about a trees importance and value to our existance. Spurs DO kill trees thats why NO Arborist organization will endorse the use of them while pruning.

You laugh because your a JOKE!

You are too lazy, and could careless what others in your trade think of you to learn how to climb without hooks. Go ahead and insult me, if that makes you feel better about you lack of climing ability.

High value trees to me are trees that go on the truck, old growth red cedar, clear Doug. fir, thats high value. I mean high asthetic value (that means valuable to look at) trees. I guess we have so many trees here, so many thick barked ones that it don't matter, we don't get our panties in a knot about them like some of you guys here. Now lazy is the wrong word, ignorant would be a better choice for you to use. There are different types of climbing ability, I have no desire to do what you do, although I could if I really had to. But I can cut down or trim big scary trees hanging over high voltage lines quickly, rigging stuff as little as possible, can you?

 

[BostonBull]

High value trees to me are trees that go on the truck, old growth red cedar, clear Doug. fir, thats high value. I mean high asthetic value (that means valuable to look at) trees. I guess we have so many trees here, so many thick barked ones that it don't matter, we don't get our panties in a knot about them like some of you guys here. Now lazy is the wrong word, ignorant would be a better choice for you to use. There are different types of climbing ability, I have no desire to do what you do, although I could if I really had to. But I can cut down or trim big scary trees hanging over high voltage lines quickly, rigging stuff as little as possible, can you?

Yes I can! I was a linesamn for 5 years before I got sick of whiny politcal unions. I trimmed around 23kv for 1.5 years. Climbed everyone that needed to be climbed. And only used hooks on the ones that were to be REMOVED.

Laziness often times is the most clear sign of ignorance.

Hence you are lazy/Ignorant. I say Ignorant with a capital I, meaning an ignoramus....ignoramus \ig-nuh-RAY-mus\, noun:
An ignorant person; a dunce

 

[clearance]

Yes I can! I was a linesamn for 5 years before I got sick of whiny politcal unions. I trimmed around 23kv for 1.5 years. Climbed everyone that needed to be climbed. And only used hooks on the ones that were to be REMOVED.

Laziness often times is the most clear sign of ignorance.

Hence you are lazy/Ignorant. I say Ignorant with a capital I, meaning an ignoramus....ignoramus \ig-nuh-RAY-mus\, noun:
An ignorant person; a dunce

I am glad to hear that you are considering my correction of your language. So a guy that works his ass of in spurs is lazy, but some spurless dude who sits in the truck all day isn't? If I was like some people on this site I would go to the mods for your clear violation of the rules. If I said the same to you people would make sure I was banned for a bit, but never mind, I can take it. I wish you well B.B., have fun, stay safe.

 

[GottaCut]

Hey guys WHOA thanks for hijacking my thread! I didnt ask for advice on whether or not to use spikes for every climb, or how damaging it is to trees. Just to insert my own opinion on that subject I will only use spikes for removals, I do know that much. I should also say I took an arborist workshop over the winter, not that I am suddenly a pro but I did walk away much more prepared for this line of work. I am not ignorant to this line of work I do know the basics.

I am not "determined to climb regardless of good advice" as someone put it. That was a completely unfounded statement. I am determined to climb putting good advice to use. Ideally I would get a job with a pro tree service and learn from a pro, however that would put me taking a cut in pay and I am a husband and father of three with to much depending on my income already.

Guys, I know to be safe, I will take my time and climb recreationally in my own backyard first. I'm not the type of person to use my TIP around any old branch and just hope for the best. I just want to put this equipment to best (safest and efficient use).

Thanks for all the replies, hey what about the problem with the locusts I mentioned?

 

[BostonBull]

I am glad to hear that you are considering my correction of your language. So a guy that works his ass of in spurs is lazy, but some spurless dude who sits in the truck all day isn't? If I was like some people on this site I would go to the mods for your clear violation of the rules. If I said the same to you people would make sure I was banned for a bit, but never mind, I can take it. I wish you well B.B., have fun, stay safe.

I never said guys who climb all day doing removals are lazy and I never said that guys who prune without hooks sit in a truck all day.....seems like you answered the question you WISHED I asked not the question/comment that was presented.

I never said you were lazy in terms of working. I am saying you are lazy in your learning, for climbing with spikes and not wanting to learn any other way.

Ill just call you a hack from now on!

What are you going to have me banned for? I didn't bring allegations out about you with doubtful origins, did I? This is all stuff that YOU PROUDLY present to the people on this forum. You know it is wrong yet you still brag about it. You are a disgrace to this industry as well as BC Hydro.

I remember you posting a while back that we should call BC Hydro and complain about you......whats the name and number of the rep for BC Hydro that you report to? Actually whats his name and what town/city is the office in that he works out of? I will gladly call the office and be connected to him or someone higher and make my feeling VERY well known......is this offer still on the table?

 

[jomoco]

There's a certain irony at work here.....

High value trees to me are trees that go on the truck, old growth red cedar, clear Doug. fir, thats high value. I mean high asthetic value (that means valuable to look at) trees. I guess we have so many trees here, so many thick barked ones that it don't matter, we don't get our panties in a knot about them like some of you guys here. Now lazy is the wrong word, ignorant would be a better choice for you to use. There are different types of climbing ability, I have no desire to do what you do, although I could if I really had to. But I can cut down or trim big scary trees hanging over high voltage lines quickly, rigging stuff as little as possible, can you?

Why you insist on continuing to advise newbies that are far outside the very thick barked trees of the pacific northwest area is becoming a little more evident now, either you're truly frightened by the thought of climbing trees without gaffs, or you are contemptuous of trees in general.

As I've stated before, my only beef with you is when you render your PNW spike every tree mind set advice to newbies seeking professional counsel that are nowhere near the PNW, ( Pacific North West )

But there's also a certain irony in your stated opinions. You see I've been up in the PNW quite recently, and I noticed something. While it may be true that climbing small to medium thick barked Redwoods, Firs, etc, is easier wearing gaffs, it is not true of the big dogs with a dbh over say 5-6 foot, these magnificent trees are a PITA to climb with gaffs and a lanyard, the stubs, getting a wire core lanyard that long to flip up that huge trunk is an art in itself!

No, those big dogs are far easier to climb with no gaffs, in the traditional manner, it's far faster and safer to shoot a line into the tree, set your climbing line, then ascend with which ever of the many methods available that you're most familiar and comfortable with.

I know this to be true, and suspect that you do as well.

So let's call a truce, and only give advice to newbies that will further their best interests as arborists in their locations throughout the world, that we as professionals have experience with or knowledge of.

I have tremendous respect and admiration for the men that work the giant trees of the PNW because I"ve been there and done that, and it was certainly no picanick.

Respectfully,

jomoco

 

[BostonBull]

Hey guys WHOA thanks for hijacking my thread! I didnt ask for advice on whether or not to use spikes for every climb, or how damaging it is to trees. Just to insert my own opinion on that subject I will only use spikes for removals, I do know that much. I should also say I took an arborist workshop over the winter, not that I am suddenly a pro but I did walk away much more prepared for this line of work. I am not ignorant to this line of work I do know the basics.

I am not "determined to climb regardless of good advice" as someone put it. That was a completely unfounded statement. I am determined to climb putting good advice to use. Ideally I would get a job with a pro tree service and learn from a pro, however that would put me taking a cut in pay and I am a husband and father of three with to much depending on my income already.

Guys, I know to be safe, I will take my time and climb recreationally in my own backyard first. I'm not the type of person to use my TIP around any old branch and just hope for the best. I just want to put this equipment to best (safest and efficient use).

Thanks for all the replies, hey what about the problem with the locusts I mentioned?

I apologize for hijacking.

In answer to your first question..........
Take out any co-dominant stems with included bark and bad junctures.
Take out any branches that are crossing, rubbing, or leaning on one another.
Take out all deadwood within reason.....your not going to get EVERY piece out!
Take out any suckers with bad growth patterns, or that will cause problems in the near future
ONLY remove 1/3 of the foliage during pruning at the most. If there are no major problems just try to open the canopy to allow light to pass through and allow air to freely circulate around and THROUGH the tree.

Hope this help.

Pick up some of Dr. Alex Shigos books....the godfather of modern pruning techniques and knowledge of how trees really work.