New to this site, and professional tree work

[jomoco]

Mulish obstinence

ANSI does not apply in British Columbia, and this issue has gone beyond the "spurs are bad" debate. Fact is, again for you and others, all the people who work for B.C. Hydro as supervisors of the utility treework done for them by private contractors are ISA certified. It is them, the ISA certified supervisors who work for B.C. Hydro who condone the use of spurs, by watching it being done and never saying anything about it (no doubt because it is safe and productive and they have no problem with it). I was called a hack, among other things, I was disbelieved and one of the head people at B.C. Hydro lied about this fact to people, Boston Bull and my friend, for starters. I identified myself and had it out with him about this. Needless to say I will never get a job with B.C. Hydro, and will not be suprised if there are consequences for me. Brian Fisher told me I can climb how I want, good enough for me. I will never climb spurless around powerlines, no one else I know will, contractors will opppose it, it ain't gonna happen, and I will do what I can to make sure that this "spurless around powerlines crap" stays the hell out of utility work in this province.

You simply don't know when to quit, do you Clearance?

You gleefully state that you and your colleagues spike any and everything that gets in your way regardless of species or bark thickness, spike em all!

Then you brazenly advise newbies worldwide to do the same because you do it all the time to be safe and more productive.

This mulish mentality to promote your hack and spike practices across the professional arborist spectrum does little more than expose you as an obstinent hack beating his chest and shouting his ignorance to the world.

There's no middle ground or compromise that can be reached with people like you, and you've effectively proven that any attempts to do so are a waste of time.

Congratulations!

jomoco

 

[clearance]

You simply don't no when to quit, do you Clearance?

You gleefully state that you and your colleagues spike any and everything that gets in your way regardless of species or bark thickness, spike em all!

Then you brazenly advise newbies worldwide to do the same because you do it all the time to be safe and more productive.

This mulish mentality to promote your hack and spike practices across the professional arborist spectrum does little more than expose you as an obstinent hack beating his chest and shouting his ignorance to the world.

There's no middle ground or compromise that can be reached with people like you, and you've effectively proven that any attempts to do so are a waste of time.

Congratulations!

jomoco

No, I don't quit, I was questioned, mocked and lied about. For a moment Jo, never mind me, what have you to say about B.C. Hydro, the huge utility thats treework supervisors are all ISA supervisors, whose director of arboriculture is a very high ranking member of the ISA, thats lets people climb everything with spurs? What the hell do you say to that?

 

[clearance]

You guys are too much.

I think that mr. clearance forgets that this is called ARBORIST SITE!!!!!

I must also say that I have always doubted clearance as a legit profile on this board but I do enjoy his posts.opcorn:

Still doubt me Donny?

 

[jomoco]

Dear Clearance

No, I don't quit, I was questioned, mocked and lied about. For a moment Jo, never mind me, what have you to say about B.C. Hydro, the huge utility thats treework supervisors are all ISA supervisors, whose director of arboriculture is a very high ranking member of the ISA, thats lets people climb everything with spurs? What the hell do you say to that?

As I've stated before, my biggest beef with you is your stubborn refusal to quit giving lame and career damaging advice to newbies that are seeking advice from the pro's at AS.COM.

As far as B.C. Hydro's hypocritical work practices in Canada go, no it doesn't shock or surprise me that the ISA or ANSI turn a blind eye when a big corporation cuts corners to turn a higher profit.

The NAA was a corrupt bunch of hypocrites when their chairman Bob Felix was alive. When the NAA merged with TCI magazine after his death to form a more consolidated stranglehold on the arborist industry, that didn't surprise me either. Corporate mergers to consolidate monopolistic strangleholds on industry has been all the rage since the Reagan era.

I will admit to being somewhat impressed by your brave efforts to point out B.C. Hydro's hypocrisy to the world while subcontracting for them, but there again it also highlights your own hypocrisy in practicing the very substandard work that you're rather lamely attempting to call them on.

What's your end goal, unemployment?

Good job.

jomoco

 

[clearance]

As I've stated before, my biggest beef with you is your stubborn refusal to quit giving lame and career damaging advice to newbies that are seeking advice from the pro's at AS.COM.

As far as B.C. Hydro's hypocritical work practices in Canada go, no it doesn't shock or surprise me that the ISA or ANSI turn a blind eye when a big corporation cuts corners to turn a higher profit.

The NAA was a corrupt bunch of hypocrites when their chairman Bob Felix was alive. When the NAA merged with TCI magazine after his death to form a more consolidated stranglehold on the arborist industry, that didn't surprise me either. Corporate mergers to consolidate monopolistic strangleholds on industry has been all the rage since the Reagan era.

I will admit to being somewhat impressed by your brave efforts to point out B.C. Hydro's hypocrisy to the world while subcontracting for them, but there again it also highlights your own hypocrisy in practicing the very substandard work that you're rather lamely attempting to call them on.

What's your end goal, unemployment?

Good job.

jomoco

Thanks, somewhat, I guess. If I become unemployed due to my efforts to expose this glaring hypocrisy then I will take legal recourse. I am not a hypocrite in my work practices, I have always said I climb with spurs and have made no secret of the fact that trees around powerlines are not the highest consideration. It goes like this, safety #1, powerline #2, trees #3. You may call me an ignorant climber or a hack, but hypocrite is wrong (at least when it comes to my job). Thank you for your opinion on the NAA, I agree with you about the consilidation that has happened everywhere since the Reagan "supply side", "trickle down" bunk of the '80s. Makes sense that the same rot would come into the tree world as well.

 

[oldirty]

i think what is lame and smacks of immaturity is the call to BC hydro in the first place.

there is no way in hell i'd work a tree over or around the lines with out spikes. no chance.

again, Mr clearance, knew you were stand up. respect.




oldirty

 

[jomoco]

Glaring Contradiction Here

I can't help but point out what I see as a glaring contradiction in your stated rationales for wearing gaffs while performing line clearance in proximity to high voltage.

Explain to me how being gaffed in to a live tree while trimming limbs away from high voltage doesn't provide a perfect path to ground in the event of a mistake and contact is made with an energized line via green limb, saw, polesaw, whatever. How do steel gaffs sunk into wet xylem wood not provide a perfect path to ground through you.

It seems to me that you'd be far better off in the event of a mistake not to be wearing gaffs sunk into wet wood, far better off.

I've done lots of line clearance work both here and in the Big Bear Area sans gaffs for that very reason. Your stated logic totally eludes me. Every line clearance trimmer is going to get tingled or jolted eventually if he stays at it for any appreciable amount of time. I've been in this business for 33 years and been jingled and jolted a half dozen times by voltage, but never seriously because I don't wear gaffs when performing line clearance in live trees, to me it's a matter of common sense that has served me well to date.

So how do you big bad line clearance experts explain this rather glaring contradiction in your so very loudly touted work practices.

Sounds more like fools playing russian roulette with their lives than any professional work standard to me.

jomoco

 

[beowulf343]

I can't help but point out what I see as a glaring contradiction in your stated rationales for wearing gaffs while performing line clearance in proximity to high voltage.

Explain to me how being gaffed in to a live tree while trimming limbs away from high voltage doesn't provide a perfect path to ground in the event of a mistake and contact is made with an energized line via green limb, saw, polesaw, whatever. How do steel gaffs sunk into wet xylem wood not provide a perfect path to ground through you.

It seems to me that you'd be far better off in the event of a mistake not to be wearing gaffs sunk into wet wood, far better off.

Power's looking for a path to the ground, doesn't matter if you're wearing spikes or not. You complete the circuit, you're going to feel the juice. You must have been working around some low voltage stuff or was lucky-the stuff i used to climb around, you make a "mistake" it would kill you with or without spikes on. So i would wear the spikes as another point of attachment to the tree.

 

[jomoco]

Power's looking for a path to the ground, doesn't matter if you're wearing spikes or not. You complete the circuit, you're going to feel the juice. You must have been working around some low voltage stuff or was lucky-the stuff i used to climb around, you make a "mistake" it would kill you with or without spikes on. So i would wear the spikes as another point of attachment to the tree.

So I guess all these horror stories I've heard and read about power line clearance workers being blown off their gaffs when they complete that path to ground are all old wives tales, right?

jomoco

 

[beowulf343]

So I guess all these horror stories I've heard and read about power line clearance workers being blown off their gaffs when they complete that path to ground are all old wives tales, right?

jomoco

Oh, wait a minute, you think the rubber soles on your shoes will save you if you complete the circuit, don't you? Never mind man.

 

[clearance]

Oh, wait a minute, you think the rubber soles on your shoes will save you if you complete the circuit, don't you? Never mind man.

Yeah, and a you can use a dry piece of wood to push someone off a live line, and a host of others myths. Bottom line, unless it has a valid dielectric test sticker on it, its conductive.

 

[jomoco]

Wow

Wow, you big manly line clearance guys sure are smart up there stomping around in your gaffs doing such a dangerous job.

Poor little greenies like me can only look up at you and marvel at your astonishing bravery.

And to think I'm stupid enough to go up without my gaffs and do that.

Boy am I a dork or what!

jomoco

 

[treeseer]

Take out any co-dominant stems with included bark and bad junctures.
Take out any branches that are crossing, rubbing, or leaning on one another.
Take out any suckers with bad growth patterns, or that will cause problems in the near future .

Instead of "take out", remove OR reduce. /A lot of codom, rubbing and other branches are better shortened than removed.

 

[clearance]

Wow, you big manly line clearance guys sure are smart up there stomping around in your gaffs doing such a dangerous job.

Poor little greenies like me can only look up at you and marvel at your astonishing bravery.

And to think I'm stupid enough to go up without my gaffs and do that.

Boy am I a dork or what!

jomoco

You said it.

 

[Dadatwins]

Back on main topic, many 'topped' trees will usually send out one or two new main shoots that can be trained to become the new crown. The challenge to the tree is to close the topping wound before decay sets in.

And to the sub topic - gaffs vs non arguement, not to many years ago standard practice was to gaff everything, we also used to paint all cuts and make flush cuts on every limb. We even used to 'top' trees to make them grow fuller at the bottom. Times change, improvements are made, and new techniques are discovered almost daily. Power line work and arboriculture have been and still are 2 separate and different tasks in my humble opinion. The techniques for one probably should not be used on the other, and vise -versa.

 

[clearance]

Power line work and arboriculture have been and still are 2 separate and different tasks in my humble opinion. The techniques for one probably should not be used on the other, and vise -versa.

Excellent point, makes sense. So why is B.C. Hydro in the ISA, wasting money and dragging down the credibility of the ISA? If anyone can explain that to me, I'm all ears.

 

[joesawer]

Excellent point, makes sense. So why is B.C. Hydro in the ISA, wasting money and dragging down the credibility of the ISA? If anyone can explain that to me, I'm all ears.

Because it sounds good when they tell people that they are members and only use approved methods. As they told BB.
It is all about perceived image, not what is real. Most bureaucrats are politicians and create their own reality as they go.
ANSI recognizes the difference between residential arbor culture, and line clearance. If you think spurs are bad look at what the giraffes are doing. In many parts of the U.S. line clearance tree trimmers are becoming obsolete because of the giraffe type trimmers.

 

[clearance]

Because it sounds good when they tell people that they are members and only use approved methods. As they told BB.
It is all about perceived image, not what is real. Most bureaucrats are politicians and create their own reality as they go.
ANSI recognizes the difference between residential arbor culture, and line clearance. If you think spurs are bad look at what the giraffes are doing. In many parts of the U.S. line clearance tree trimmers are becoming obsolete because of the giraffe type trimmers.

Thank you.

 

[Ekka]

Brian Fisher is just brown nosing and furthering his own career, typical corporate prostitute.

 

[BostonBull]

I have been away fro a couple of days.....

What a turn of events. I have a new respect foryou for calling Brian. He is a corporate liar. I still hink that climbing trees other than an old growth thick barked tree, should be done with NO spikes. No matter the situation.
Clearance your still arrogant and I am still disagreeing with you on your work practices but that little move took balls!