New to this site, and professional tree work

[treeseer]

"In many parts of the U.S. line clearance tree trimmers are becoming obsolete because of the giraffe type trimmers."

i agree that giraffe trimming is a huge problem, worse than topping in some places. But I do not understand the above sentence.

Brian Fisher is just brown nosing and furthering his own career, typical corporate prostitute.

Speaking of sitting on the sidelines and lobing hand grenades, that was a stink bomb from the back of the bleachers.

Yo Eric, try walking a mile in someone's shoes and boarding up your glass windows before you launch any more of those. Here's a news flash--Anarchy does not work!:monkey:

imho The only way to change these orgs is for the members to rise up and get other members to voice opinions. Just read the comments from the latest ISA member survey of 20,000 members. It takes less than 20 minutes to read every word. Judging from what's said, most of those who speak out are desk aborists. The great majority of field arborists don't say squat, then wonder why policies are disproportionately skewed toward the interests of desk arborists. DUH!

I got nothin against desk arborists, spending half my working time at a desk. Complaining is constructive when it's done respectfully and through channels that get your voice heard. Destructive complaining may feel good, like popping a pimple, but it leaves a wound, and changes little.

 

[diltree]

People that have never worked around power, telling guys that do work around power how to do their job pretty funny. For the record, the ROWS we have serviced for 50 years have all been gaffed over and over again, and the tree's keep growing and never die.......I don't see what the big deal about gaffing ROWs is with some of you guys.

 

[diltree]

Ok..that I disagree with....

When working with other peoples trees, you should treat the trees with the utmost respect, as the trees are part of a customers personal property. Gaffing someones trees shows a sign of disrespect, as we know that the gaffs do cause wounds to the cambium and can also spread certain fungal disease and pathogens. There is a time and place for the use of gaffs while pruning, and I agree that ROWs are an example of an acceptable time to prune w/ gaffs: however, any time people hire you to work on their property you should respect their property, and use the least destructive methods of climbing, that means no gaffs! Too gaff an ignorant customers trees when you know better is both unprofessional, dishonest, and disrespectful.

TreeCo......Clearance has never struck me as dishonest, I'm surprised at his position

Clearance, I have always thought of you as a straight shooter, and respected you for that reason. My question is, do you really believe we should be gaffing peoples tree's? these being same people that are hiring us as professionals to take care of their tree's.

 

[nytreeman]

Being honest

there is no way in hell i'd work a tree over or around the lines with out spikes. no chance.
again, Mr clearance, knew you were stand up. respect.

Ok slam me if you want I just wanted to give my view on this.

I give Clearance a lot of credit he's been a stand up guy right along and whether you agree with him or not has been shootin' straight and I respect him for that.All this bs with the rep and his hypocritical cover my ass type of crap pisses me off and is typical these days of buracrates,big business and government. If I was doing a dangerous job like clearing lines if gaffs make me more secure in that tree,then you bet your ass I'd be standing in my spurs too.

I totally agree trimming a tree gaffless is better for the tree and should be done whenever possible,esp in the case of homeowners.But then too I know several ISA certs near me, and many who still trim or there climbers do,at times in spikes.Lots only have a cert because its requirement for bidding many counties and towns.It's just a piece of paper to them.Many could never hold a candle next to some of the old timers I've known.Guys,who would talk about the first time they saw a bucket truck and laughed saying "hell all I needed was a rope and a belt for any tree I ever did".

The majority of work I do are removals and always in gaffs.The trimming I can do gaffless I free climb with a safety or pitch a rope and hoist my ass up.But in around here we get lots of storm damaged trees many still salvageable but in small back/side yards totally inaccesable to any equipment.Big mutistemmed silver maples and huge scary willows that the wind has broken up and craps hanging all over.Or Early fall and late spring snow twists them up and tears and twists the laterals.People want to save them many times it's their only tree so if it's possible I will, but these are dangerous tree over fences,sheds,sometimes several houses.Many times with the high lines running behind on the line.These trees I usually climb with a 10 ft flipline and my rope for my safety and in my gaffs I don't like the idea of bouncing around on a rope in these trees until I feel I can do it with a minimum of risk for me and for property.

I climb with spurs and have made no secret of the fact that trees around powerlines are not the highest consideration. It goes like this, safety #1, powerline #2, trees #3. You may call me an ignorant climber or a hack, but hypocrite is wrong (at least when it comes to my job).

Like clearance said your safety is #1. Besides about half the year here its wet and snowing,my ropes are always wet or frozen then trees slippery and covered in snow and ice.I'm very cautious and I consider myself a good climber have climbed for several companies before going on my own climbed trees that no one else would and got them down without a problem.I explain to customers what i'm going to do and how I'll do it and I tell them in these situations that I will be wearing spikes.I like to stay simple but if I have the tree looking like a spiderweb of rope or pull split trees back and chaining and guying them together to remove them I'll get the tree done.I make proper cuts,never top,I'll cut back to a lat or something never stub.I try my best to do it right but if it's a job with the extra hazard like clearing or cleaning up badly broken trees I think me being safe and being able to do the job safely means more than a the few scars I make climbing this type of tree in spurs.

Power's looking for a path to the ground, doesn't matter if you're wearing spikes or not. You complete the circuit, you're going to feel the juice. You must have been working around some low voltage stuff or was lucky-the stuff i used to climb around, you make a "mistake" it would kill you with or without spikes on. So i would wear the spikes as another point of attachment to the tree.

I want to have all the control I can have and that third point works for me. Got touched by 3 phase yrs back, just a little zap from a very thin 15-20 ft spruce branch that got hung by it's cones in another as I had tossed it so I'm coming down my rope to get it and the wind caught it and tipped it back on the lines behind me stub jamming into my leg.Fell back against my rope and the limb slid off.No spikes and and I would have probably been swingin and swinging near those lines doesn't appeal to me at all.

Sorry about the long rant and I don't mean to p!ss anyone off it's just my 2 cents.
Heres to AS for the opportunity for all of us to give our opinions.
This is a great site! thanks.

 

[clearance]

I have been away fro a couple of days.....

What a turn of events. I have a new respect foryou for calling Brian. He is a corporate liar. I still hink that climbing trees other than an old growth thick barked tree, should be done with NO spikes. No matter the situation.
Clearance your still arrogant and I am still disagreeing with you on your work practices but that little move took balls!

Thank you Boston Bull. I have thought about this a lot, its probably not over because of what I have done but thats another matter. Anyways, as far as this site goes, I will no longer advise people about how to climb, except for removals or work around powerlines, if I forget this, remind me.

 

[BostonBull]

Thank you Boston Bull. I have thought about this a lot, its probably not over because of what I have done but thats another matter. Anyways, as far as this site goes, I will no longer advise people about how to climb, except for removals or work around powerlines, if I forget this, remind me.

Thats not the issue, you advising people how to climb. You have good ideas and good advice. Just get off the high horse and admit that spiking, other than old growth ROW trees and removals, is WRONG!

Thats why everyone is pissed at you! You tell every new guy and veteran on here to use spikes and "F" trees! Alot of the co's out there make their money on tree preservation which does NOT include the use of spikes on anything other than removals.

 

[clearance]

People that have never worked around power, telling guys that do work around power how to do their job pretty funny. For the record, the ROWS we have serviced for 50 years have all been gaffed over and over again, and the tree's keep growing and never die.......I don't see what the big deal about gaffing ROWs is with some of you guys.

Boston, I said I would no longer advise people here about climbing, except for removals and powerline work. I will not advocate the use of spurs on residential trees. Wrong, o.k., its not good for the trees. I will slink off into my cave now.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I will not advocate the use of spurs on residential trees. Wrong, o.k., its not good for the trees. I will slink off into my cave now.

Well Jim, it takes a real man to admit when he is wrong Though I've said for a long time that you are a skilled professional in your niche of the industry. I prefer the ANSI description to the ROW job Qualified Line Clearance Tree Trimmer, I think utility arborist is bunk. Here the workers are part of the IBEW union, which makes sense. ROW veg control is all about production and keeping the electrons flowing so that the executives can get their bonuses (oops, sorry, my wife works for the local power company...)

Yeah, I get frustrated when I see where one of them gaffed up an easy willow in a back yard to get a few limbs out, or they strip the side of a tree and head it back so there's noting left, "why not take it down????"

I do not have any ROW workers as friends, but have spent time talking to them on jobsites where they are doing 10ft work for us. Any top climber there with is highly skilled, I saw one 50 something Y/O on 3 strand and taughtline with dogsnap slacktender swinging around a stand of peckerpoles and whips that would have snapped off under me

 

[Ekka]

Yo Eric, try walking a mile in someone's shoes and boarding up your glass windows before you launch any more of those. Here's a news flash--Anarchy does not work!:monkey:

Treeseer, news flash.

It's our right and responsibility to expose the typical sort of BS perpetrated by the likes of the guy.

What's your role now, protect all BSing ISA members? You wouldn't have a clue what I do, you just hang around the same ole ground hog day.

Your contribution to our issues here has been noted.

 

[treeseer]

"I saw one 50 something Y/O on 3 strand and taughtline"
JPS he sounds like a true pro! Experience and Tautline rules! :blob5:

It's our right and responsibility to expose the typical sort of BS perpetrated by the likes of the guy.

Which is why I said this 2 pages ago: "If his company is condoning spurs on thin-barked trees in the city, and claiming they are ANSI-compliant, then they have some splainin to do, and clearance is right to out them and get it into the open."

Namecalling :deadhorse: doesn't do anything to expose the truth. clearance stepped up; so what positive contribution is made by fanning the flames? The higher the temperature, the harder it is to make changes. :computer2:

 

[clearance]

"I saw one 50 something Y/O on 3 strand and taughtline"
JPS he sounds like a true pro! Experience and Tautline rules! :blob5:

Which is why I said this 2 pages ago: "If his company is condoning spurs on thin-barked trees in the city, and claiming they are ANSI-compliant, then they have some splainin to do, and clearance is right to out them and get it into the open."

Namecalling :deadhorse: doesn't do anything to expose the truth. clearance stepped up; so what positive contribution is made by fanning the flames? The higher the temperature, the harder it is to make changes. :computer2:

I am not asking for any changes, I just want the B.S. and hypocrisy to stop. B,C, Hydro ain't the company I work for, it is the company flying the ISA flag, they should be kicked out.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

JPS he sounds like a true pro! Experience and Tautline rules! :blob5:

He surely was, and he listened to me when I was showing them different knots and stuff they had heard of, but had no opportunity for exposure.

As for the thin-barked comment...well It is possible for canker formation on thick barked trees where phelogen was opened up.

 

[treeseer]

He surely was, and he listened to me when I was showing them different knots and stuff they had heard of, but had no opportunity for exposure.

ok ok I'm still listening; just kinda slow on the uptake...

As for the thin-barked comment...well It is possible for canker formation on thick barked trees where phelogen was opened up.

very true; thick barked trees can get infected too.

 

[Ekka]

so what positive contribution is made by fanning the flames? The higher the temperature, the harder it is to make changes.

Or the higher the flames the better the roasting.

 

[treeseer]

Or the higher the flames the better the roasting.

I thought cannibals were in New Guinea; not Brisbane. :sword: :looser:

 

[clearance]

I thought cannibals were in New Guinea; not Brisbane. :sword: :looser:

Are you going to do anything about the B.S. going on, with your fellow, and high up ISA liar at B.C. Hydro? Yes or no?

 

[Dadatwins]

Curious to what you want done, the BC hydro guy already says they 'encourage' proper arboriculture practices. Talk about a lawsuit waiting happen forcing a guy to rope climb that has always been a spiker and then he gets hurt. Obviously they and you know the bottom line is production. I worked for the big orange many years ago and the only interest was cut the least you can to get clearance and get as many spans done as possible. To retrain all their personel to climb spurless (it is possible) would be an enormous expense and that affects the bottom line. I can remember going to training classes telling us that ALL lines are considered HOT and not to be touched, and then they would show us how to secure the wooden ladder that you were standing on to the telephone cable so it did not fall and get broken. Anyone that has worked for the line companies know they treat their personel as raw meat that when spoiled goes in the trash. There are some very competent climbers that do line work, that is what they are good at. A large percentage of production climbers today started in line clearance and then burned out and moved onto residential work. Takes a different type of climber and retraining to do it but its possible. As I said before 2 different kinds of work. As for the ISA going after the BC guys with a firing squad, unless they start messing with the logo you can forget it. I beleive your question was answered back on page 4 of this thread with the political correctness answer.

 

[clearance]

Because it sounds good when they tell people that they are members and only use approved methods. As they told BB.
It is all about perceived image, not what is real. Most bureaucrats are politicians and create their own reality as they go.
ANSI recognizes the difference between residential arbor culture, and line clearance. If you think spurs are bad look at what the giraffes are doing. In many parts of the U.S. line clearance tree trimmers are becoming obsolete because of the giraffe type trimmers.

This answer? They "encourage" it, talk about B.S., I "encourage" soldiers not to kill anyone to win wars, funny how you can't have an omellete without breaking any eggs, isn't it? And they are messing with the logo, they are flying it but not ensuring work is done to all ISA standards, so, that is messing with it. They are using the ISA certification and colors to make themselves look credible. And also wasting money, I mean how much has Hydro given to the ISA? Tests, books, conventions, and who knows what else. We are in the middle of a terrible pine beetle epidemic right now, that money should be spent sawing down trees, not giving it to a feel good mutual admiration society.

 

[joesawer]

This problem did not happen over night and it will not be fixed over night. Inertia is a very powerful thing.
Clearance, I admire your courage and determination, and I understand where you are coming from, but you have to take care of yourself before you can take care of any one else. Being black balled from your industry is not an easy thiong to overcome (don't ask how I know). I am not saying to roll over and show your belly, just slow down and think about the most effective and efficiant way. If it becomes more expediant to make you disappear than to fix a problem, believe me there are people who will try (and they are some sneaky, clever bastages, with a lot of resorces).

 

[Ekka]

Metaphores regarding heat for Treeseer.

When the boss calls you into his office and gives you a ...

grilling

flaming

roasting

BBQ'ing

branding

Means you are not eaten or even cooked, just dealt with verbally.