Newbie to running older saws, question on mix ratio

[North by Northwest]

Most saws from days gone by actually say 16 to 1 that was with non detergent 30 weight. I want the insurance of a little extra oil that is why I run 32:1.

As i said , 32:1 is not requied today . When it was recommended it was because straight 30 mineral oils were being used . Even

If you ran 30 weight at 32:1 you would have wrecked a saw. I will continue to run 32:1 for everything I’m not have issues with carbon buildup bc my equipment is tuned too it.

You can pretty well run any ratio you wish , if you know your oils and how to tune your saw to it accordingly . I have been doing it for 40 yrs , never had an issue . Its even easier today with the much better quality oils that are intended for 2 strokes .

 

[North by Northwest]

Some run 25:1 mineral and their pistons and cylinders are mint. Though that’s in Australia where the wood is hard and the weather is hot.

Dominator , or Red Armor or Shell or Citco along with Motul or Maxima . Even Saber used at 50:1 no leaner , gives excellent results . I have heard Aussie wood is extremely hard on saws , so a sharp chain & proper oil usage would be critical indeed .

 

[North by Northwest]

EPA regulations is the reason why the manufacturers tell ya to run 50:1 plan and simple. Do Whatca like plan and simple

I don't t listen to Saw Manufacturers , or Dealers . Its more important to follow the oil manufacturers recommendations in my opinion .

 

[sean donato]

EPA regulations is the reason why the manufacturers tell ya to run 50:1 plan and simple. Do Whatca like plan and simple

Actually we've covered this quite a bit. 50 to 1 isn't reccomended in all new epa saws. Husqvarna still reccomends a higher oil ratio in 75cc + saws of 33 to 1. I'm pretty sure they are the last to say any different from the 50 to 1 for all saws though.

To the op. I recently acquired a old homelite gear reduction saw myself and found that the engine has a air vane govenor. Using typical tuning methods is moot with them from what I understand, but all the others you should be good to go with using your stated method. Don't bugger up that 1/2" chain. As I'm finding out it's a bear to get ahold of.

 

[North by Northwest]

Actually we've covered this quite a bit. 50 to 1 isn't reccomended in all new epa saws. Husqvarna still reccomends a higher oil ratio in 75cc + saws of 33 to 1. I'm pretty sure they are the last to say any different from the 50 to 1 for all saws though.

To the op. I recently acquired a old homelite gear reduction saw myself and found that the engine has a air vane govenor. Using typical tuning methods is moot with them from what I understand, but all the others you should be good to go with using your stated method. Don't bugger up that 1/2" chain. As I'm finding out it's a bear to get ahold of.

I currently run all my Pro-grade saws @ 44:1 . Including my 80 cc 7900 . My MS-660 Milling saw I run @ 32:1 with Dominator . I utilized Amsoil Interceptor up until this spring in my 346 xp , 357 xp & 5105 H . However like the results of Dominator in these saws once retuned .

 

[bwalker]

As i said , 32:1 is not requied today . When it was recommended it was because straight 30 mineral oils were being used . Even then saws carboned up since it was a excessively rich mix ratio . It Also it easy dropped out of suspension easily in storage or did not mix oroperly i cold weather

My Pioneers have full Torrington bearings , likely better than what is in new saws today . Timkin is the same bearing today. Only 2T units that I have had experience with that had Babbitt bearing other wise known as bushing were OMC. 2T Lawnboy mowers . They required religious use of only OMC 2 stroke oil at 16 :1 in the 60 's then 32:1 in the late 70's to mid 80's . The Babbitt bearings & loose tolerances required heavier viscocities accordingly .

Newer lawnboys have a silver over babbitt bear that has needles riding on it for the big end rod bearing. The old ones from what I gather had bronze bushings. On the PTO end of the crank. I am not sure if older saws have these types of bearings or not.
Back in the day saws carboned up with 30wt auto oil not from the ratio, but rather because it was a poor two cycle lubricant. Modern oils will work very well at 32:1 and even lower. And 32:1 isn't excessively rich. It's actually middle of the road. Yamaha to this day recommends 30:1 in there mx bikes and for good reason. Suzuki, Honda, and Kaw all recommended 32:1 when they still made two strokes.

The OPEmfgs went to 50:1 to reduce visible smoke emmissions given the average joe can't tune a carb to save his life.
Modern saws run great at 32:1. My 400C has ran 32:1 since day one and is very clean internally and doesn't smoke at all except for a few seconds when cold.
Previously I ran a Husky 562 at 32:1 for years with good results. Even bumped it up to 24:1 when I needed to run a long bar in large oak. Again with perfect results.

 

[bwalker]

Some run 25:1 mineral and their pistons and cylinders are mint after thousands of hours. Though that’s in Australia where the wood is hard and the weather is hot.

I don't doubt this at all.

 

[bwalker]

Actually we've covered this quite a bit. 50 to 1 isn't reccomended in all new epa saws. Husqvarna still reccomends a higher oil ratio in 75cc + saws of 33 to 1. I'm pretty sure they are the last to say any different from the 50 to 1 for all saws though.

To the op. I recently acquired a old homelite gear reduction saw myself and found that the engine has a air vane govenor. Using typical tuning methods is moot with them from what I understand, but all the others you should be good to go with using your stated method. Don't bugger up that 1/2" chain. As I'm finding out it's a bear to get ahold of.

Oil has a very minimal effect on emmissions. The reason 2 cycle emmissions are traditional terrible is because the exhaust port and transfer port are open at the same time and fresh charge is used to scavenge the cylinder. Strato saws basicly solve this issue(at least partially) by using fresh air to scavenge.
The saw mfgs went to 50:1 to reduce visible smoke. Out if sight out of mind type thing.

 

[North by Northwest]

Newer lawnboys have a silver over babbitt bear that has needles riding on it for the big end rod bearing. The old ones from what I gather had bronze bushings. On the PTO end of the crank. I am not sure if older saws have these types of bearings or not.
Back in the day saws carboned up with 30wt auto oil not from the ratio, but rather because it was a poor two cycle lubricant. Modern oils will work very well at 32:1 and even lower. And 32:1 isn't excessively rich. It's actually middle of the road. Yamaha to this day recommends 30:1 in there mx bikes and for good reason. Suzuki, Honda, and Kaw all recommended 32:1 when they still made two strokes.

The OPEmfgs went to 50:1 to reduce visible smoke emmissions given the average joe can't tune a carb to save his life.
Modern saws run great at 32:1. My 400C has ran 32:1 since day one and is very clean internally and doesn't smoke at all except for a few seconds when cold.
Previously I ran a Husky 562 at 32:1 for years with good results. Even bumped it up to 24:1 when I needed to run a long bar in large oak. Again with perfect results.

Actually the bushings were sintered brass / bronze composition in the old OMC engines . I had a Duraforce Oil Injected M Series model that was set @ 64:1 for OMC injector oil usage . My Son has it now , he removed the injector pump & runs Premix with Saber @ 40:1 for 10 yrs now lol.

 

[bwalker]

Actually the bushings were sinter brass / bronze composition in the old OMC engines . I had a Duraforce Oil Injected model that was set @ 32:1 for OMC injector oil usage . My Son has it now , he removed the injector pump & runs Premix with Saber @ 40:1 for 10 yrs now lol.

The duraforce was never oil injected. You must be talking about the Suzuki made engine that was put in the M Series. Those were great mowers from what I gather. The duraforce on the other hand was a complete turd and I can say this from expiereance.

 

[North by Northwest]

The duraforce was never oil injected. You must be talking about the Suzuki made engine that was put in the M Series. Those were great mowers from what I gather. The duraforce on the other hand was a complete turd and I can say this from expiereance.

Yeah , the 1993 M-Series engine , it was a Suzuki , the carb was a complete piece of crap & the injector system was a weak link also . Although my later 2003 Duraforce had plastic carb deformation or warpage issues also , which caused surging issues . I have had over a half dozen LB 2T mowers mostly F & D -Series engines ! My 1st was the C-Series model which was a budget conscious Model . Anyhow sweet mowers , back in the day .

 

[North by Northwest]

Newer lawnboys have a silver over babbitt bear that has needles riding on it for the big end rod bearing. The old ones from what I gather had bronze bushings. On the PTO end of the crank. I am not sure if older saws have these types of bearings or not.
Back in the day saws carboned up with 30wt auto oil not from the ratio, but rather because it was a poor two cycle lubricant. Modern oils will work very well at 32:1 and even lower. And 32:1 isn't excessively rich. It's actually middle of the road. Yamaha to this day recommends 30:1 in there mx bikes and for good reason. Suzuki, Honda, and Kaw all recommended 32:1 when they still made two strokes.

The OPEmfgs went to 50:1 to reduce visible smoke emmissions given the average joe can't tune a carb to save his life.
Modern saws run great at 32:1. My 400C has ran 32:1 since day one and is very clean internally and doesn't smoke at all except for a few seconds when cold.
Previously I ran a Husky 562 at 32:1 for years with good results. Even bumped it up to 24:1 when I needed to run a long bar in large oak. Again with perfect results.

I raced a 1972 Cz-250 MX & a later Husquarna 360 MX ran Bel-Ray mineral 2T at 24:1 & 32:1 respectively . Pre-mix in both back in the day since they were our Series Sponsor , so the oil was free lol. Later switch to Shell 2T @ 40:1 .

 

[Bill G]

Some run 25:1 mineral and their pistons and cylinders are mint after thousands of hours. Though that’s in Australia where the wood is hard and the weather is hot.

I guess we do not have any "hard" hardwoods nor hot weather in America nor the rest of the globe. You fine folks in AUS got those conditions cornered do ya......... Me thinks not

 

[North by Northwest]

I don't doubt this at all.

Yeah , today's highly refined modern Dino oils are actual base synthetics from very well refined crude oil stocks , are they not FB or FC rating Ben ? which covers the basic requirements of any air cooled engine .

 

[Bill G]

By the way I have a "pretty extensive" collection of vintage saws and run pretty much all on quality modern oils at 40-1

 

[KASH]

I do not know what synthetic oil is made from but have noticed that the price of mix oil has risen dramaticly supposededly due to the increase in oil prices.If synthetic oil is not made from crude oil why is the price of it going up the same?
Kash

 

[sean donato]

Oil has a very minimal effect on emmissions. The reason 2 cycle emmissions are traditional terrible is because the exhaust port and transfer port are open at the same time and fresh charge is used to scavenge the cylinder. Strato saws basicly solve this issue(at least partially) by using fresh air to scavenge.
The saw mfgs went to 50:1 to reduce visible smoke. Out if sight out of mind type thing.

I was aware some of the fresh mix got out the exhaust, I however didn't know what effect the oil had on emissions. I can say everything I currently own (2t) runs just fine at 40 to 1. Few of the saws smoke a bit till they warm up. Never bothered me much. Actually haven't seen much exhaust smoke from 2 strokes since smokeless or ashless oil came out. Even in the bikes that used to slobber all over the place and smoke like pigs seemed to clear up once they got some heat in them.

 

[sean donato]

I do not know what synthetic oil is made from but have noticed that the price of mix oil has risen dramaticly supposededly due to the increase in oil prices.If synthetic oil is not made from crude oil why is the price of it going up the same?
Kash

A lot of synthetic oils use highly refined mineral oil as a base stock. So technically they arw still made from Dino juice. Besides that inflation is hitting hard recently. Can't even get my favorite Rotella diesel oil right now....

 

[KASH]

All my saws from a 52 Pioneer DA up to present get one oil Quart to five gallons gas.
Kash

 

[sean donato]

You run 20 to 1 one? Bit over kill by about any standards don't you think?