not much of a face cut

[056kid]

I dont really want to sound like all the rest of you adults, I dont want to hate anyone either.

I do feel strongly about the way I do things though.


And if you aare talking ablot the fellow in the vid with his 051, well that should have taken less than 3 minutes imo.

I appreciate you wanting to help but thoes methods are well, dumb...

 

[056kid]

I wonder why? Could it be that you even sound like a braggart kid in most of your posts?

Hmm... opcorn:

Gary

gary you loon, I am not a horse...

 

[fmaglin]

Its still just three cuts. Only sometimes do i leave the strap top pop from behind.

I've cut more than a handful of 4' plus red oaks, poplars, white oaks with a bore.

Hey Hammer, when you do cut the strap do you make your cut in line with the plunge, or below it? A faller here in Ohio told me he cuts the strap about 1/2" below the plunge cut mainly if he thinks the tree might barber chair.

 

[2dogs]

Hey Hammer, when you do cut the strap do you make your cut in line with the plunge, or below it? A faller here in Ohio told me he cuts the strap about 1/2" below the plunge cut mainly if he thinks the tree might barber chair.

If you cut the holding wood too high or even with the backcut it can take your saw. Make the cut 2" below the backcut. (This is for heavy head leaners, about the only time I borecut.)

 

[hammerlogging]

hey 2dogs, I figure those eucalyptus are good ones for the bore cut method.

Yes, just below the backcut is best if there's lots of tension, but usually I am cutting straight out the back, or as I near the back of the cut I rotate around the tree and side swipe the strap with the tip, again just in one motion. For heavy leaners or where there is some other hazard where a concerted escape route is necessary I will pause and cut the strap from the back, and below it is the best for the reason 2dogs said.

For real heavy leaners, the tree can sit before you pull out to cut the strap- basswoods are bad about this, as are rotten trees, thus leaving an awfully large strap in sometimes an already tense situation. Just hit it hard with the full belly of your bar and dig dig dig my man, She'll break free and all will be ok.

If its a heavy leaner I may use a root for the strap, but avoid this otherwise as I don't like cutting them for the strap, again, they're prone to grabbing your chain (and saw).

I have had one awful barberchair with a bore cut. A large hollow as a gourd POS Beech cull. Faced it, bored from one side, left plenty of wood to be a strap- as soon as I bored in the other side POW she blew scared the hell out of me, about a 30' barberchair, the trunk just rested up there on top of the barberchair with the crown on the ground. Left it for the hunters to ponder. Only time though. FYI, beeches have been undesired since the beginning of time and they are usually large, heavy topped, and only have about a 2" rind of wood holding them up. Great den trees, otherwise worthless. I girdle em more than drop them these days, for wildlife and silviculture- makes too big of an unnecessary mess for the loggers to drop that big old top for an unmerch stick of wood.

 

[smokechase II]

West Coast Husky owners hang your heads

Anyone seen the new Husqvarna saw commercial?

It shows glimpses of open face technique.
Might want to get some paint or paint remover. Or some real dark huge movie star sunglasses.
Any association on the left coast with that stuff could hurt a fella's self esteem.

====================

At least its the first time I've seen an open face faller look along the sights toward the target. Phew.

 

[fmaglin]

If you cut the holding wood to high or even with the backcut it cam take your saw. Make the cut 2" below the backcut. (This is for heavy head leaners, about the only time I borecut.)

Thanks 2dogs!

 

[fmaglin]

hey 2dogs, I figure those eucalyptus are good ones for the bore cut method.

Yes, just below the backcut is best if there's lots of tension, but usually I am cutting straight out the back, or as I near the back of the cut I rotate around the tree and side swipe the strap with the tip, again just in one motion. For heavy leaners or where there is some other hazard where a concerted escape route is necessary I will pause and cut the strap from the back, and below it is the best for the reason 2dogs said.

For real heavy leaners, the tree can sit before you pull out to cut the strap- basswoods are bad about this, as are rotten trees, thus leaving an awfully large strap in sometimes an already tense situation. Just hit it hard with the full belly of your bar and dig dig dig my man, She'll break free and all will be ok.

If its a heavy leaner I may use a root for the strap, but avoid this otherwise as I don't like cutting them for the strap, again, they're prone to grabbing your chain (and saw).

I have had one awful barberchair with a bore cut. A large hollow as a gourd POS Beech cull. Faced it, bored from one side, left plenty of wood to be a strap- as soon as I bored in the other side POW she blew scared the hell out of me, about a 30' barberchair, the trunk just rested up there on top of the barberchair with the crown on the ground. Left it for the hunters to ponder. Only time though. FYI, beeches have been undesired since the beginning of time and they are usually large, heavy topped, and only have about a 2" rind of wood holding them up. Great den trees, otherwise worthless. I girdle em more than drop them these days, for wildlife and silviculture- makes too big of an unnecessary mess for the loggers to drop that big old top for an unmerch stick of wood.

Thanks for the info Hammer. Are you cuttin anywheres near to the Ohio River?

 

[Jacob J.]

Yes that is an open face cut and yes he's actually one of the five Park Service C instructors in the U.S. If you see the saw tilted sideways he's boring into the tree to set some wedges to directionally fall the tree. I dont remember this tree or day, but he was my engine supervisor for the park I worked at this summer.

Yea i have to agree that for this the face cut was too shallow even for an open face cut. I've been with him when he cut 30inch ponderosas with an open face cut that had more of angle to them than the one in the picture. If I remember the tree did have a decent amount of back lean to it along with all the others on the slope. Some days the stumps just are not that good i guess. Jason is a very skilled sawyer that has years of excperience sawing all over the country on fires. He is only one of five "C" instructors for the park service and has certed me on my fires as a fireline sawyer. By the way where did you get that picture? I thought we only had those pictures on the crew files on the computers in the office.

There's more than five now...I happen to be one of them...

This is how they teach in the Forest Service, and other places...

No, we never taught this in the Forest Service, BLM, State government, or anywhere else...such an assumption is asinine...

If I were a guy wanting to REALLY learn how to fall timber, I would pay more attention to more guys like hotsaws101's videos (although, most of the techniques that he displays in his videos are fairly advanced and should ONLY be tried if a guy has some good timber falling mechanics and fundamentals)

Jack has some pretty good tricks in his videos for sure...but he also pulls some dumb and foolish stunts...he's gotten lucky many times...

 

[Mike PA]

FYI, beeches have been undesired since the beginning of time and they are usually large, heavy topped, and only have about a 2" rind of wood holding them up. Great den trees, otherwise worthless. I girdle em more than drop them these days, for wildlife and silviculture- makes too big of an unnecessary mess for the loggers to drop that big old top for an unmerch stick of wood.

Huh? Beech trees worthless to wildlife? Never heard that one before. Ever hear of beechnuts? I always thought critters liked them. I guess the turkeys and deer I see eating the nuts must be wrong, too.

 

[fmaglin]

Huh? Beech trees worthless to wildlife? Never heard that one before. Ever hear of beechnuts? I always thought critters liked them. I guess the turkeys and deer I see eating the nuts must be wrong, too.

I think Hammer is saying that most of the Beech trees are mostly suitable for animal dens due to the older growth trees usually having about a 2" thick rind holding them up, and the rest of the trunk being hollow.

I would have to agree with that as the tract we are cutting in now has many Beech blow downs and everyone is hollow. The tops do make for good firewood though. Back in the late 1980s mostly every timber buyer out here would offer you "blocking" price for beech, with the exception of one that would pay a little more selling the logs (if not hollow) to a basket company.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

On the eastern end of the UP they have beautiful beech trees. Makes great veneer and saw logs, if the beech bark disease hasn't killed them first. Great wildlife trees, great lumber trees, never in my life have I heard them called worthless before.

 

[Greystoke]

Jacob J.;1735648]There's more than five now...I happen to be one of them...



No, we never taught this in the Forest Service, BLM, State government, or anywhere else...such an assumption is asinine...

Okay??? :monkey: I made my "asinine assumption" because I saw the picture that started this thread, and then somebody gets on here and confirms that he is an "instructor". So when you say "we never taught this", are you saying that this guy is not an instructor? Okay, so you do not teach that cut, but that "instructor" CLEARLY is at least using it for himself, and maybe his students see him, or photograph him using it and think: "if our instructor does it this way, then that must be how it's done".

Jack has some pretty good tricks in his videos for sure...but he also pulls some dumb and foolish stunts...he's gotten lucky many times...

I have been around enough good timber fallers to know one when I see one

 

[2dogs]

Huh? Beech trees worthless to wildlife? Never heard that one before. Ever hear of beechnuts? I always thought critters liked them. I guess the turkeys and deer I see eating the nuts must be wrong, too.

I would agree that beech trees have no value. That can be confirmed by watching the wildlife. They only chew Redman. OK, sometimes Cope.

 

[slowp]

Ahhh, Falling Gentlemen, an explanation is needed. The original guy in the photo was Park Service, which is not to be confused with the other agencies mentioned. Not to worry, it is a common error. We have National Forests then we have National Parks. The two are different, although that difference is becoming less, but that would be a different topic. Now, shake hands if you don't have the flu, and all will be right with the universe for a brief time.

 

[Jacob J.]

Okay??? :monkey: I made my "asinine assumption" because I saw the picture that started this thread, and then somebody gets on here and confirms that he is an "instructor". So when you say "we never taught this", are you saying that this guy is not an instructor? Okay, so you do not teach that cut, but that "instructor" CLEARLY is at least using it for himself, and maybe his students see him, or photograph him using it and think: "if our instructor does it this way, then that must be how it's done".



I have been around enough good timber fallers to know one when I see one

I don't know the individual in the picture, but it's obvious he's NPS, not USFS, BLM, or a state agency individual. You made the blanket statement "That's how they teach it in the Forest Service" without doing any real research. I've worked for all of the above agencies and have been a falling instructor for all of the above, including certifying class "C" fallers (I got my "C" falling certification at age 19.) I've never seen that style of face cut used by an agency sawyer up until now and I've never seen it demonstrated in a falling class for any agency. I've also never seen it used in private industry during the many years I was a timber falling contractor.

Ahhh, Falling Gentlemen, an explanation is needed. The original guy in the photo was Park Service, which is not to be confused with the other agencies mentioned. Not to worry, it is a common error. We have National Forests then we have National Parks. The two are different, although that difference is becoming less, but that would be a different topic. Now, shake hands if you don't have the flu, and all will be right with the universe for a brief time.

I couldn't have explained it better myself.

 

[Greystoke]

I don't know the individual in the picture, but it's obvious he's NPS, not USFS, BLM, or a state agency individual.

You made the blanket statement "That's how they teach it in the Forest Service" without doing any real research.

Of course it is a "Blanket Statement" Park service, Forest service, you all look the same to me.

I have worked for all of the above agencies and have been a falling instructor for all of the above, including certifying class "C" fallers (I got my "C" falling certification at age 19.)

Did you get a merit badge for becoming a class "C" faller

I couldn't have explained it better myself.

Uhh...actually you could have explained it better, before accusing me of making "asinine assumptions"??? Oh well! Good thing slowp cleared it up

 

[Jacob J.]

Did you get a merit badge for becoming a class "C" faller

No, but getting that certification at such a young age is almost impossible, especially in today's political climate.

Merit Badges don't pay the bills, son....

Uhh...actually you could have explained it better, before accusing me of making "asinine assumptions"??? Oh well! Good thing slowp cleared it up

If I had known you were so thin-skinned, I would have phrased it differently...

 

[Greystoke]

I would agree that beech trees have no value. That can be confirmed by watching the wildlife. They ony chew Redman. OK, sometimes Cope.

Now that's funny rot thar!

 

[Greystoke]

=Jacob J.;1736685]

No, but getting that certification at such a young age is almost impossible, especially in today's political climate.

Merit Badges don't pay the bills, son....

Sorry Dad...Just thought you needed a pat on the back.

If I had known you were so thin-skinned, I would have phrased it differently...

Did not hurt my feelings I'm only funnin!