MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
Tony was in a small company. This company is a lot bigger, I thunk.
Now I'm Angry
- Thread starter NYSawBoss
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The reason I find this funny is because it is familiar. When I first found this site I was a know nothing that should have lurked and learned. But no, I posted my ignorance and got roasted by Rocky and never came near AS for probably half a year because I had a big pout on. After a while I finally accepted my ignorance and came back (with a different user name) because I knew this was a great place to learn. Don't make the mistake of leaving this forum because you are pi$$ed off. Swallow your pride, take Rocky with a (very large) grain of salt and be patient. Sure this isn't rocket science but you can't be the team captain when you are still picking up jock straps. (I must be missing Hockey Night in Canada to be writing stupid euphemisms like that.)
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I don't do treework full time but as busy as one can be doing it part time.
I've been at this about 10 yrs. now. I have myself established on my own and working for my bud Lyle. I do whatever is asked. I get the same pay either way. The crew that he has is usually 3 or 4 guys who all can climb, we switch off.
Tony, you seem to have a lot of enthusiasm. Use it to your benefit. Give this gig some time and see where it goes. 2-3 days is not enough. In the meantime see if you can hook up with a good climber working after hrs. you can pick up a lot just there.
I've been at this about 10 yrs. now. I have myself established on my own and working for my bud Lyle. I do whatever is asked. I get the same pay either way. The crew that he has is usually 3 or 4 guys who all can climb, we switch off.
Tony, you seem to have a lot of enthusiasm. Use it to your benefit. Give this gig some time and see where it goes. 2-3 days is not enough. In the meantime see if you can hook up with a good climber working after hrs. you can pick up a lot just there.
Chucky
ArboristSite Operative
Don't get discouraged, NYSB, it's all good.
Harsh as it sounds, the Tree Squirrell, tactless as he usually is, is pretty much right.
I went through the same thing myself, doing mostly groundie work for the first year -- and I went into my first job with a degree in Urban Tree Management with some climbing experience.
I too was reprimanded by the boss for moving too slow, at first. But there's an easy remedy for that -- move faster. And that should be easy on you, Boss, as you're only 24 years old.
Anyway, I humbled myself and I moved faster and I tried my best to do my job well and keep everybody happy. I watched closely what the climbers were doing whenever I wasn't dragging brush or feeding the chipper. My neck was always sore at the end of the day from craning it watching the climber. And very importantly, closely watching the climbers can increase their safety, because -- believe it, or not -- they screw up. I remember two occassions in big White Pines when I made sure to figure eight their safety line tails to prevent them from running outta line on descents. They were quite embarrassed when they suddenly ran into the stopper knot, but, oh, were they ever grateful.
Anyway, with my new positive attitude, the boss and the climbers appreciated me all the more, and they looked for opportunities for me to hone my climbing skills. I was always very athletic, and I thought I was a decent climber coming out of school, but I was lame in comparison to the climbers I worked with.
And don't despair, NYSB, being a good groundie is something to be proud of, as it requires good skills -- just as being a climber requires good skills. You will be all the better climber by a far cry down the road after having mastered groundie work.
Another thing, I used to work with a 50-year-old climber who on a pruning job would throwball his line 50' over a limb in the tree, and then pull himself the entire way to the limb -- with NO FRICTION HITCH! Your hispanic compadres' techniques sound similar. All you can do is make sure that when you start climbing you stick to ANSI safely standards. Listen to Tree Machine's advice on using a Big Shot. As for the rest of the advice, you are so lucky to have advice from these extremely capable tree people -- they are experts who do this sort of thing for a living, and take their valuable time to share their concerns.
As Crofter says, you gotta pay your dues before you're accepted. And that's a GOOD thing! It's all GOOD!
Chucky
Harsh as it sounds, the Tree Squirrell, tactless as he usually is, is pretty much right.
I went through the same thing myself, doing mostly groundie work for the first year -- and I went into my first job with a degree in Urban Tree Management with some climbing experience.
I too was reprimanded by the boss for moving too slow, at first. But there's an easy remedy for that -- move faster. And that should be easy on you, Boss, as you're only 24 years old.
Anyway, I humbled myself and I moved faster and I tried my best to do my job well and keep everybody happy. I watched closely what the climbers were doing whenever I wasn't dragging brush or feeding the chipper. My neck was always sore at the end of the day from craning it watching the climber. And very importantly, closely watching the climbers can increase their safety, because -- believe it, or not -- they screw up. I remember two occassions in big White Pines when I made sure to figure eight their safety line tails to prevent them from running outta line on descents. They were quite embarrassed when they suddenly ran into the stopper knot, but, oh, were they ever grateful.
Anyway, with my new positive attitude, the boss and the climbers appreciated me all the more, and they looked for opportunities for me to hone my climbing skills. I was always very athletic, and I thought I was a decent climber coming out of school, but I was lame in comparison to the climbers I worked with.
And don't despair, NYSB, being a good groundie is something to be proud of, as it requires good skills -- just as being a climber requires good skills. You will be all the better climber by a far cry down the road after having mastered groundie work.
Another thing, I used to work with a 50-year-old climber who on a pruning job would throwball his line 50' over a limb in the tree, and then pull himself the entire way to the limb -- with NO FRICTION HITCH! Your hispanic compadres' techniques sound similar. All you can do is make sure that when you start climbing you stick to ANSI safely standards. Listen to Tree Machine's advice on using a Big Shot. As for the rest of the advice, you are so lucky to have advice from these extremely capable tree people -- they are experts who do this sort of thing for a living, and take their valuable time to share their concerns.
As Crofter says, you gotta pay your dues before you're accepted. And that's a GOOD thing! It's all GOOD!
Chucky
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Guess I missed that one.
When you are new to a job overtime is usually best taken at least until you know where you stand, but then that is just me.
Tony wants to learn.......you do what you gotta do. If that requires working a few eevenings then so be it!!!
Dadatwins
Addicted to ArboristSite
Very true, A great groundman can make a so-so climber look good, but a bad groundman can make even the best climber look like crap.
Al Smith
Addicted to ArboristSite
Paying ones dues
I will address this,to whom it my concern.It makes no difference,what line of work you are in,everybody pays thier dues.Respect,as a so to speak,master of craft,is earned,not demanded.Is is earned through your peers,and your employer.It takes time,Rome was not built in a day.All work,is honorable,and neccessary.One of the richest men,that I know,started as a fry cook,in a fast food place.At last count,he is worth around 600 mil.It is not above his pride,to take out the trash,if needed,and do so in a $1500 suit.In my time,I have seen many a young hot shot journeyman,that thought he was"the pride of the fleet",fall flat on his egotistical butt,because of this pride thing.In the past,I have had to fire people,because a job was "beneath" them.I hated to do it,but the show must go on.Here is an example of a good attitude.I have a young apprentice woman,5 ft tall,125 lbs.minority status.This little lady is working with big old gruff guys,like myself.A little tiny person,with the heart of a lion,wants to learn,no task beneath her dignity.A mere girl in a mans world.She has already gained the respect of her peers,and will go far.To whom it may concern,will you?
I will address this,to whom it my concern.It makes no difference,what line of work you are in,everybody pays thier dues.Respect,as a so to speak,master of craft,is earned,not demanded.Is is earned through your peers,and your employer.It takes time,Rome was not built in a day.All work,is honorable,and neccessary.One of the richest men,that I know,started as a fry cook,in a fast food place.At last count,he is worth around 600 mil.It is not above his pride,to take out the trash,if needed,and do so in a $1500 suit.In my time,I have seen many a young hot shot journeyman,that thought he was"the pride of the fleet",fall flat on his egotistical butt,because of this pride thing.In the past,I have had to fire people,because a job was "beneath" them.I hated to do it,but the show must go on.Here is an example of a good attitude.I have a young apprentice woman,5 ft tall,125 lbs.minority status.This little lady is working with big old gruff guys,like myself.A little tiny person,with the heart of a lion,wants to learn,no task beneath her dignity.A mere girl in a mans world.She has already gained the respect of her peers,and will go far.To whom it may concern,will you?
okietreedude1
ArboristSite Guru
I agree here w/ some of the comments ive read relating to 'suck it up.' Ive got this to add as a suggestion.
The company i work full time for I serve as Foreman, Cert. Arborist, Spray tech, climber, groundman....a little of everything. There are days the younger climbers go up and Im left dragging brush. So what. Sure Id rather climb because I think I can do it faster or different, but then these guys would never gain the respect Ive earned by working in their shoes. NYSB, do your job, do it well. When your turn to climb comes back up, climb your arse off, hit the ground, pack the gear out of the way, and help finish the cleanup (if need be). Looks like the hombreys havent mastered working as a team, but you can start on your end.
From what Ive read too, everyone here has started at the bottom and worked their way up. Just like climbing a tree, you cant start halfway. Sure it'll piss ya off somedays. I still get that way.
I read too NY that your pissed at the foreman. Maybe something got him going b4 he ever showed up at the site and your just catching the brunt of it. Let it go (for a time). If you feel you are doing 110%, thats all that matters. If it continues, take it up with the boss.
Best of luck and Climb Safe!
The company i work full time for I serve as Foreman, Cert. Arborist, Spray tech, climber, groundman....a little of everything. There are days the younger climbers go up and Im left dragging brush. So what. Sure Id rather climb because I think I can do it faster or different, but then these guys would never gain the respect Ive earned by working in their shoes. NYSB, do your job, do it well. When your turn to climb comes back up, climb your arse off, hit the ground, pack the gear out of the way, and help finish the cleanup (if need be). Looks like the hombreys havent mastered working as a team, but you can start on your end.
From what Ive read too, everyone here has started at the bottom and worked their way up. Just like climbing a tree, you cant start halfway. Sure it'll piss ya off somedays. I still get that way.
I read too NY that your pissed at the foreman. Maybe something got him going b4 he ever showed up at the site and your just catching the brunt of it. Let it go (for a time). If you feel you are doing 110%, thats all that matters. If it continues, take it up with the boss.
Best of luck and Climb Safe!
NickfromWI
Addicted to ArboristSite
off time
It's very important that you practice much on your own time. Yes you have to give all you have at the jobsite while you are on the ground, but if you expect to improve by only what you learn on the jobsite, your advancement will be slow.
You seem to be doing this already, NYSawboss. But take your saddle home at night and on the weekends. Try new things and get good as quick as you can so that when you do get your shot in the tree, it won't look like this is your first time in the saddle.
love
nick
It's very important that you practice much on your own time. Yes you have to give all you have at the jobsite while you are on the ground, but if you expect to improve by only what you learn on the jobsite, your advancement will be slow.
You seem to be doing this already, NYSawboss. But take your saddle home at night and on the weekends. Try new things and get good as quick as you can so that when you do get your shot in the tree, it won't look like this is your first time in the saddle.
love
nick
Reality check
Think, can you bury a groundman in limbs when you climb? Sure you can. Most climbers would like to have 2-3 groundmen but the reality is you don't often get an abundance of groundmen when you climb. When you're the climber you'd have to time yourself so you don't bury the groundman. So when it's your turn to be the groundman you know one groundman can't keep up to you. You can't keep up to two climbers. The foreman is trying to get a rise out of you or he is venting some steam he brought with him. Let it go.
Think, can you bury a groundman in limbs when you climb? Sure you can. Most climbers would like to have 2-3 groundmen but the reality is you don't often get an abundance of groundmen when you climb. When you're the climber you'd have to time yourself so you don't bury the groundman. So when it's your turn to be the groundman you know one groundman can't keep up to you. You can't keep up to two climbers. The foreman is trying to get a rise out of you or he is venting some steam he brought with him. Let it go.
Brock2saws
ArboristSite Lurker
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NY's Saw Boss??
For crying out loud Tony. You make a post about "Wanting to Climb, Wanting to Climb!" That's great, I think it's the THE most IMPORTANT trait of a climber. If you want to bad enough you'll overcome challenges, make the sacrafices and put in the practice that it takes to become one. But just wanting to be a climber doesn't make you one. It takes time in the saddle and by your own admission you don't have it. Last week you didn't even know how to tie into a spar. What makes you think you're a climber?
All this about you don't care what anybody says is BS. You do want to hear, that's why you post us about how much you want to climb, all about your new job and if we think you can do a takedown. But when we tell what you don't want to hear you throw a tantrum.
And the feedback concerning it will take time to become a climber and you've got lots to learn IS a "contagion" among "Older, Wiser climber(s)" because we know, and you asked us. There's alot more to it than just tying in and counting how many people come outside to watch you work.
This job isn't the end all, be all of your career in arboriculture. It's a BS job where they make you use your own gear and let climbers work unsecured. Of course those other two are going to gang up on you and they want you to drag all the brush. Do what you have to do to bring home that check and look for another job apprenticing with a competent climber. Just don't be branded as a prima donna climber because you don't have the skill to back that up.
I think all of us have been you with since the beginning. Don't freak out on us now.
Good luck,
BAB
For crying out loud Tony. You make a post about "Wanting to Climb, Wanting to Climb!" That's great, I think it's the THE most IMPORTANT trait of a climber. If you want to bad enough you'll overcome challenges, make the sacrafices and put in the practice that it takes to become one. But just wanting to be a climber doesn't make you one. It takes time in the saddle and by your own admission you don't have it. Last week you didn't even know how to tie into a spar. What makes you think you're a climber?
All this about you don't care what anybody says is BS. You do want to hear, that's why you post us about how much you want to climb, all about your new job and if we think you can do a takedown. But when we tell what you don't want to hear you throw a tantrum.
And the feedback concerning it will take time to become a climber and you've got lots to learn IS a "contagion" among "Older, Wiser climber(s)" because we know, and you asked us. There's alot more to it than just tying in and counting how many people come outside to watch you work.
This job isn't the end all, be all of your career in arboriculture. It's a BS job where they make you use your own gear and let climbers work unsecured. Of course those other two are going to gang up on you and they want you to drag all the brush. Do what you have to do to bring home that check and look for another job apprenticing with a competent climber. Just don't be branded as a prima donna climber because you don't have the skill to back that up.
I think all of us have been you with since the beginning. Don't freak out on us now.
Good luck,
BAB
MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
So what's up, Tony? We're all brothers here.
And sometimes we act like it, too!
And sometimes we act like it, too!
i agree with the people who say practice your climbing on your own time. it is the best way to learn . And even better then that is when you can find a experienced climber to take you under their wing and show you the ropes a bit in a non stress non working enviornment.
as far as dragging brush goes. Everyone does it . And if he sais your not doing it fast enough. dont let that get you down.. just find a way to do it faster. actually faster may not even be the word for it.. but anyways . Do you have and loop runners? Stack the brush so the buts are all facing the same way , Choke it with a loop runner and drag it pile at a time over to the chipper and throw it in. Dont get mad becuase they give you a bit of grief. Its just a part of being the new guy. someday you will look back and say hey this has all been worth it. And the company you work for at the moment may not be the one you will work for forever.
This is a bit off subject. but if you were to go into the airforce as a pilot. They dont just throw you in a jet and say go show us what you can do . Rather they put you through vigerous training and make sure you know that plane inside and how to follow flight plans. being a climber really isnt that much different. you can learn alot just by watching from the ground. . i wish you luck. and i really hope you find a way to keep a good atitude about all of this and make it work. you seem to really want to make it in the industry and i know if you want to you will.. but if you try to make it happen overnight you may not .
good luck my frieind.
as far as dragging brush goes. Everyone does it . And if he sais your not doing it fast enough. dont let that get you down.. just find a way to do it faster. actually faster may not even be the word for it.. but anyways . Do you have and loop runners? Stack the brush so the buts are all facing the same way , Choke it with a loop runner and drag it pile at a time over to the chipper and throw it in. Dont get mad becuase they give you a bit of grief. Its just a part of being the new guy. someday you will look back and say hey this has all been worth it. And the company you work for at the moment may not be the one you will work for forever.
This is a bit off subject. but if you were to go into the airforce as a pilot. They dont just throw you in a jet and say go show us what you can do . Rather they put you through vigerous training and make sure you know that plane inside and how to follow flight plans. being a climber really isnt that much different. you can learn alot just by watching from the ground. . i wish you luck. and i really hope you find a way to keep a good atitude about all of this and make it work. you seem to really want to make it in the industry and i know if you want to you will.. but if you try to make it happen overnight you may not .
good luck my frieind.
NYSawBoss
ArboristSite Operative
My sincere apologies to any and all who were offended and now view me as either a moron, whiner, or yuppy bit&h. I know I'm not a climber but I can't get this notion out of my head that you have to be "up there" to learn to be one. Perhaps my misunderstanding. Anyway....The crazy climber (Adan) has taken me under his wing..I can barely understand him but he wants to train me. I drove him home today and all he did was put down Herbert is friend (the other Hispanic gentleman) Oh well, Rocky, I hope you will not smite me and ignore any future posts.
tony
(shamed and all together humbled)
tony
(shamed and all together humbled)
John Stewart
ArboristSite Guru
Hey Tony
Your OK just keep learning and be safe
Don't worry about negative posts because there will be pokes and jabs taken
The good guys will be there for you and dont worry about the rest
See you out there and dont give up!
Take Care
Later
John
Your OK just keep learning and be safe
Don't worry about negative posts because there will be pokes and jabs taken
The good guys will be there for you and dont worry about the rest
See you out there and dont give up!
Take Care
Later
John
MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
Keep on keeping on, my man. Everybody had to start somewhere. You shoulda seen me after my first three months in a Hi-Ranger. I WAS A TREEMAN!!!
Al Smith
Addicted to ArboristSite
Reality check
Sometimes,people have to get a little harsh,to get the others attention,as you have seen.I ,myself am not a tree climberI was,however,a pretty decent pole climber,at one time.Not bragging,just simple fact,I am a real good steel climber{ iron worker,electrician].I taught open steel climbing classes,for apprentices,at one time.Today,I had a young female apprentice,that wanted to go aloft with me.Before we did so,I checked her gear,and made sure she knew how to use it ,fall arrest,work positioning etc.During the course of the day,she was never any farther from me,that I could not reach her with my hands.She shall remain at arms length,until I am confident she is able to be on her own,no matter how long it takes.In my opinion,it is the duty,of the more experianced workers to teach those gaining experiance,has been,always will be.Very rarely,but sometimes I even get a little loud myself.Hang in there,and you will make it.
Sometimes,people have to get a little harsh,to get the others attention,as you have seen.I ,myself am not a tree climberI was,however,a pretty decent pole climber,at one time.Not bragging,just simple fact,I am a real good steel climber{ iron worker,electrician].I taught open steel climbing classes,for apprentices,at one time.Today,I had a young female apprentice,that wanted to go aloft with me.Before we did so,I checked her gear,and made sure she knew how to use it ,fall arrest,work positioning etc.During the course of the day,she was never any farther from me,that I could not reach her with my hands.She shall remain at arms length,until I am confident she is able to be on her own,no matter how long it takes.In my opinion,it is the duty,of the more experianced workers to teach those gaining experiance,has been,always will be.Very rarely,but sometimes I even get a little loud myself.Hang in there,and you will make it.
its all good tony. we all get mad sometimes and we all know what its like to go through the stress of learning.. you just have to take it one day at a time. Im im sure not nearly as good of climber as alot of people on this site. but i learn each and every day different ways to do things better.. Safer and more productivly while aloft. you can learn alot from experience and also by watching people with experience. Theres always more to learn. Take care and stick with it.
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