Oak Tree Questions with Pics

[treesquirrel]

First, personally after seeing these pics there is no way on earth I'd make any guarantees that this thing won't split and break. No way! The most I would do is say that the risk can be lowered with additional cabling work but zero promises on it holding up.

Those cables appear way too low on the leads to work. Need to be a good bit higher up. I'm not a cabling expert so see what you can find out from the experts. Or better yet, defer the job to a well known and reputable cabling pro.

Ultimately I'd just tell them the cabling looks inadequate, the splitting is a serious risk. If you want it down then I'll get started.

 

[tree MDS]

see.....

This is one of the reasons why I'm not a big fan of the whole cabling thing - way too many variables to consider. I also hate fumbling around with hardware and all that crap up there.

I'm just gonna order the BMP books and do whatever the :censored: they say from now on, at least that way I should be covered (by the sounds of it??) if something ever goes down. of course add a little common sense when needed.

Yeah right TV, not that complicated.

 

[treevet]

"Getting it" is all part of becoming an accomplished pro.

 

[tree MDS]

"Getting it" is all part of becoming an accomplished pro.

Fair enough then.

I'm all for admitting my weaknesses, its the only way to progress. I've done this times before.

So I'll work on it...even though it makes me feel like a carpenter or an electrician up there. lol.

 

[treevet]

You doing those beeches tomorrow? How bout some picts?

 

[lego1970]

your nuts

I don't think I explained my thinking clearly or it was misunderstood.
Your picture is why in my opinion it's better to just take down the tree.

 

[ROOTSXROCKS]

I hope I can explain My "BS" conjecture with an illustration. A system is only as strong as the weakest component.
The larger half of the tree has a tapered crack, no matter how minute the spread it will allow sheer movement of the two halves independent of the other,
once the Crack happened it no longer became a problem of supporting one half against the other. when one side flexes the Rod will resist but it will do so in a concentrated area creating a splitting force along the rays of the wood.

Im not saying the failure can not be prevented, Im just saying there is much more than the original flaw to consider, one or more pins placed on the same plane could create more danger by Longitudinal alignment of braces. the Rods should be offset so that one is not directly above the other.

A large split or weak crotch requires two or more rods to hold the two sections together and minimize twisting. For large split crotches, at least one bracing rod should be inserted Above the crotch separated by a vertical distance equal to or greater than the diameter of the tree at the rod. and more In it being sure to Avoid the same plane.

Upon reconsidering I am thinking the cables may not have loosened but were over tightened and this tree has been damaged by the cabling, in that the forces pulling the crotch together have created outward forces below the fulcrum of the crotch. perpetuating the Crack rather than closing it.

The Rod Brace above the Crotch Creates a fulcrum that redirects the force inward.
Refer to Structural Features Related to Tree Crotch Strength http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/theses/available/etd-05122003-124617/unrestricted/Farrellthesis0610.pdf


Tree Care Industry Association
https://secure.tcia.org/store/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductCode=BMPCAB
Best Management Practices - Tree Support Systems: Cabling
Member Price: $6.00
Nonmember Price: $8.00
The Western Chapter of the International Society of Arboriculture, (WCISA)
http://www.wcisa.net/docs/Publication.pdf
CTW
CA P1312 Best Management Practices – Tree Support Systems $5.00 $7.00

my point in an earlier post

Sorry I missed that, it was when I started reading the Structural Features Related to Tree Crotch Strength I realized My errors I quoted my post because I edited it on the previous page to include the source and be more specific on the brace. BRACE RODS FOR CODOMINANT STEMS:
INSTALLATION LOCATION AND BREAKING
STRENGTH
by E. Thomas Smiley1, Craig M. Greco2, and James G. Williams3
http://joa.isa-arbor.com/request.asp?JournalID=1&ArticleID=2890&Type=2

 

[tree MDS]

You doing those beeches tomorrow? How bout some picts?

Its just the one giant one. I started it yesterday with just a guy on the ground so that when I do get back to it with another climber it'll go smooth.

Its not pretty though, I think its got that beech bark disease we talked about back a ways. The ends of the branches are all cankered up and some of its dying back real bad , the tree does appear to be giving it a hell of a fight though, as I could see how it was sending out uprights in an effort to compartmentalize the cankers (so I cut to those with the silky). None of this is helped by the old septic tank that was dug up (and the dirt piled at the base) and left open 13' or so from the trunk - or the branches the excavator ripped off in doing so. Not exactly the time of year for air spading and root pruning up here. Still a work in progress this one...me gots some thinking to do.

Got paid for the takedowns though.

Oh, still gotta work on the pic thing one of these days - sorry.

 

[treemandan]

Treemds is that you? Aaww come on, lets get back to telling everybody to shove it. Whaddaya say?

You have some good help up there or what?

 

[tomtrees58]

I don't think I explained my thinking clearly or it was misunderstood.
Your picture is why in my opinion it's better to just take down the tree.

:agree2:tom trees

:jawdrop: some time they have to go and that one has to

 

[treemandan]

Cut it down and plant a new one = sleep well on both accounts.


I wonder if in the car forums people take pictures of their rusty leaky exhaust systems and ask if muffler tape will fix it?

 

[Behemoth Jim]

Cut it down and plant a new one = sleep well on both accounts.


I wonder if in the car forums people take pictures of their rusty leaky exhaust systems and ask if muffler tape will fix it?

:hmm3grin2orange:

:chainsawguy::chainsawguy::chainsawguy:

 

[treeseer]

re BMP price, note i said Free Shipping! offer stands, for those who want to learn the work. for those who don't want to know :rant: but instead want to stay high on 2-cycle fumes and sawdust lust, why post about something that you don't want to know about? :taped:

RXR we are cool; I agree that the cable did harm likely. and thanks for linking rob farrell's thesis; he does good work. and if you are looking at Smiley's article from 2000 you are on the way but why not refer to his 2006 work aka the bmp aka the small s standard.

$8., Free Shipping! Other BMP's, same rate.

 

[outofmytree]

Cut it down and plant a new one = sleep well on both accounts.


I wonder if in the car forums people take pictures of their rusty leaky exhaust systems and ask if muffler tape will fix it?

Just when I think you cannot make me laugh any harder.......

My torso is going to need bracing soon.

 

[treevet]

you are easily entertained oomt

 

[tree MDS]

Treemds is that you? Aaww come on, lets get back to telling everybody to shove it. Whaddaya say?

You have some good help up there or what?

Sorry dano. Looks like the inner arborist got a hold of the keys for a post there. lol. Theres always time for some :censored: bustin tho, fear not.

I have to get my license soon...so if I'm gonna learn all this stuff you had better bet your :censored: I'm gonna work it baby! Besides, I figure if I have to re-invent my way of thinking/doing business some, in order to help whip on the competition...its all good. I could always switch from takedown mode to pruning mode pretty easily anyway.

As far as the current help situation goes, its sporadic but good.

 

[tree MDS]

Cut it down and plant a new one = sleep well on both accounts.


I wonder if in the car forums people take pictures of their rusty leaky exhaust systems and ask if muffler tape will fix it?

I did almost think of tryin to rep ya for this one though.

 

[bigredd]

I'm no expert but will give my experience with a problem tree that was on my property. It was double trunk Tulip Poplar tree, both with 30" dbh and 110 ft high. They had some dead limbs at the top after the 2007 droubt and one was aimed at my neighbors house. See pics below.

I had a licensed arborist come out and check the tree to see if it was healthy. He tapped around on the base and declared it was solid and healthy. He also recommended some cabling between the two spars for support. I could not sleep at night during storms thinking about that tree destroying my neighbors home so decided to remove it. Turns out it was hollow inside 6' below and above ground.

Moral of the story is that if you have a visible problem, that's only the tip of the iceberg.

 

[danieltree]

When in doubt take it out. The commitment is lifetime when you cable and brace, the tree is still going to grow and the crack will always be there. Unless the tree has historical significance or is an exceptional specimen and the customer understands that this is a lifetime commitment cabling is just a waste of money and another way to take the customers cash, this oak is not all that great to start with and the cash spent cabling and bracing would be better spent on buying a healthy tree.​

 

[ROOTSXROCKS]

I don't know about further north, but now days you can buy truly massive replacement trees for 8-15 grand.