Old dads, trees and trouble

[TimberMcPherson]

My parents and inlaws decended on us this weekend to meet our kid who was born earlier this month. My retired ex farmer 63 year old dad is asking me more questions than usual about trees and how to fell them (something that always makes me suspicious). He takes advice like most people treat disease.

Turns out hes been helping out neighbour that cant afford to hire an arborist, felling ugly pines on there property using a husky 350, an old anchoring line and his landcruiser. The icing on the cake was the use of a huge ladder. Its a youtube dream come true.

Dad doesnt know enough to know he doesnt know enough and is a stubborn irish red head who wont listen no matter how quietly I try educate him or how loudly I yell at him calling him an ignorant suicidal half wit. He is one tough SOB and theres nothing in this life that scares him or will stop him doing anything once hes made up his mind.

So Im a little stuck, they live 7 hours away and I have a new baby, a wife that needs my help, I badly need to earn some money here to keep afloat. He wont accept help, wont wait, wont let me organise a local arborist up there to help.

So I gave him a 357xp, a harness, climbing rope, steel core flip line, throw line, biners, prussics, wedges and a few other odds and ends and some hurried lessons how to use them.
I dont know if I have done something to lessen the risk or made it worse. I know im near 2k worth of gear lighter, but I dont care about that. (although IM going to really miss that 357)

Anyone else have simular trouble? I dont mind if he gets a little busted up as much as the suffering my mum will have to go through if he does.

I think Im feeling guilty for not being able to do more

 

[asthesun]

My parents and inlaws decended on us this weekend to meet our kid who was born earlier this month. My retired ex farmer 63 year old dad is asking me more questions than usual about trees and how to fell them (something that always makes me suspicious). He takes advice like most people treat disease.

Turns out hes been helping out neighbour that cant afford to hire an arborist, felling ugly pines on there property using a husky 350, an old anchoring line and his landcruiser. The icing on the cake was the use of a huge ladder. Its a youtube dream come true.

Dad doesnt know enough to know he doesnt know enough and is a stubborn irish red head who wont listen no matter how quietly I try educate him or how loudly I yell at him calling him an ignorant suicidal half wit. He is one tough SOB and theres nothing in this life that scares him or will stop him doing anything once hes made up his mind.

So Im a little stuck, they live 7 hours away and I have a new baby, a wife that needs my help, I badly need to earn some money here to keep afloat. He wont accept help, wont wait, wont let me organise a local arborist up there to help.

So I gave him a 357xp, a harness, climbing rope, steel core flip line, throw line, biners, prussics, wedges and a few other odds and ends and some hurried lessons how to use them.
I dont know if I have done something to lessen the risk or made it worse. I know im near 2k worth of gear lighter, but I dont care about that. (although IM going to really miss that 357)

Anyone else have simular trouble? I dont mind if he gets a little busted up as much as the suffering my mum will have to go through if he does.

I think Im feeling guilty for not being able to do more

hopefully he'll realize he's in over his head before he gets hurt. every now and then i'll be hem-hawing about climbing a sketchy tree and the business owner who has never climbed will say something like 'just climb it, i could do it if (insert pathetic excuse here)'. i always immediately throw my gear at their feet and say 'do it then'.

 

[treevet]

stubbornness really inhibits learning. Add that it is family and you almost have no hope. My boy is world class stubborn and a know it all. Thinks he doesn't need to listen as he already knows it thru genetics I guess.

 

[bonker81]

sounds like my grandfather. 78 years old, has to get shots in his back every other month just to walk. well three weeks ago i stop by his house and notice a ladder leaning up against the 50' cedar tree in the backyard and the lower limbs are missing. turns out gramps was sick of the tree blocking the sun on the garden so the logical solution (and since he'd just had a shot and was feeling pretty good) was to do it himself rather than ask the 4 grandkids or 3 kids that live within a ten mile radius. when i asked him he said "i'm glad your here, i almost fell off the ladder so could you finish." I guess some people really take Jimmy Buffet's line to heart, "I'd rather die while i'm living than live while i'm dead."

 

[oldirty]

got a video camera? do a couple "how to" vids and get him to watch them. from chainsaw filing to felling ,spoken like you know how he will understand.

nice of you to kit him up like that. hopefully he doesnt grumble at it and get back on the ladder.

 

[treevet]

Is he fit enough to climb at 63? Since you gave him climbing gear that is the question. I noted you didn't give him a pair of spikes. Probably a good thing as the tendency is to do the opposite (hug in instead of lean out) when learning and you cannot be there.

Couldn't help but feel a little complicit if he took a tumble since he has your gear.

 

[treemandan]

I would drive up and check it out even if I couldn't.

I should get a couple of pics of Mr. Bakay ( retired and drives a school bus) and his new odd numbered Stihl slashing up his line of low hemlock. I guess he use the money he would have paid me to buy that saw.

 

[treeseer]

if they are ugly pines why don't you get your 357 back and give him a handsaw and a polesaw instead? it's a rare tree that cannot be pruned back to usefulness.

And he may be less likely to hurt himself or anyone else if he sticks to pruning. No way I'd've given my cranky old man gear like that--enabling (and liable for) a hazard imo.

Men who turn to logging in their 60's are in serious need of a hobby more age-appropriate. I'm 58 and removals on my land are on a per-need basis only, and are learning opportunities for youngsters, not a pasttime for me.

 

[treesquirrel]

I hope he paid attention to the climbing instructions.

Tough situation for sure.

 

[TreEmergencyB]

yea idk if i could give someone even more my dad climbing gear and a chainsaw unless he knows how to climb and use the gear correctly. i hate to be a :censored:, but yyou might have set him up for somthing bad

you said he needed to fell trees i see no need to give him the belt and flipline thats gonna encourge him to lanyard himself on said ladder to tree, and we all know thats not where u wanna be

 

[Mapleman]

Man this has Steven King written all over it--a liitle knowledge is a scary thing, especially when it comes to tree work. Get your dad on the horn and walk him through it at least. Maybe you can call a local tree brother in the area to go check up on him.

 

[Jumper]

I asked the question last July. Old, stubborn, cheap and unaware of their current physical capabilities come to mind.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=72381

 

[TimberMcPherson]

Man if I could go up there I would, but theres no way no matter how I try to look at it. I have a 2 week year old daughter and a wife who needs my help and needs me to be working at the moment. (and he would probably tell me to go home if I got there and look after my family....grrrr. Dont get me wrong, hes a pretty good dad and the hardest working SOB I have ever known, he just as stubborn as gravity and incredibly generous for what he will do for others.
Hes going to climb the tree anyway, thats something I could not stop him from doing, (and goddammit I have really tried) and he was going to go up and cut limbs. and they are to big to handsaw. I just wanted to make it so he was secure when it happened or he would have one arm wrapped around limb while cutting one handed with the 350 or cutting limbs while standing on a ladder.

I gave him the 357xp with the understanding that he used ALL the gear I gave him. It was a little bit of leverage that I could use. A bribe you could say.
You cant make a bull walk any path but you can head him in the general direction. Personally Id like to put him in a pen until I can get up there.
I feel pretty rotten and powerless about the whole situation.

 

[tree md]

My dad is 64 and works with me on most jobs. He has held the ropes and watched me for years but as he is semi retired now (actually retired from 2 careers and working on a third), he likes to work with me pretty much all he can. Any time I am lining up help he always asks me why I need so and so, "I've got him". He is not a treeman by no stretch of the imagine but did climb poles and microwave antennas when he was young and worked for AT&T. He scares me with a chainsaw. When we got socked in by an ice storm I cut him out of his driveway and left him with my smallest saw to fend for himself. He's hard working and sounds a lot like your dad but I wouldn't give him the tools to climb with. Not saying that you shouldn't have (that's your call) but I would never give my pops the tools to hurt himself with. He used to be fearless but after he fell 30' and broke his pelvis repairing a deer stand he respects working from heights now and I don't think I would have to worry about him putting his self in that position again (as long as he's got me).

Best of luck with that situation... I can relate.

 

[treeseer]

Hes going to climb the tree anyway, thats something I could not stop him from doing, (and goddammit I have really tried) and he was going to go up and cut limbs. and they are to big to handsaw.

By whose estimation, and with what handsaw? He could do 6" with a zubat, bigger with a bigger handsaw. That "I need a chainsaw" crap usually means "I like to make noise and smoke and hear the vroom vroom".

Boys, even 64-year old boys, luv those toys. Infantile, imo. :monkey:

Tell him you need that 357 back to earn a living for his granddaughter's upkeep.

Think about it--would you give your teenage son that gear?

What's the dif?

:deadhorse:

 

[treeoperations]

Man if I could go up there I would, but theres no way no matter how I try to look at it. I have a 2 week year old daughter and a wife who needs my help and needs me to be working at the moment. (and he would probably tell me to go home if I got there and look after my family....grrrr. Dont get me wrong, hes a pretty good dad and the hardest working SOB I have ever known, he just as stubborn as gravity and incredibly generous for what he will do for others.
Hes going to climb the tree anyway, thats something I could not stop him from doing, (and goddammit I have really tried) and he was going to go up and cut limbs. and they are to big to handsaw. I just wanted to make it so he was secure when it happened or he would have one arm wrapped around limb while cutting one handed with the 350 or cutting limbs while standing on a ladder.

I gave him the 357xp with the understanding that he used ALL the gear I gave him. It was a little bit of leverage that I could use. A bribe you could say.
You cant make a bull walk any path but you can head him in the general direction. Personally Id like to put him in a pen until I can get up there.
I feel pretty rotten and powerless about the whole situation.

he doesnt live just north of albany in auckland does he theres some wally doing some trees off a ladder been at em a while.

if hes close i dont mind swinging past its called karma

 

[Mikecutstrees]

An older man I knew flew spitfires for the british in WWII. Flew floatplanes in alaska. Raced cars at Lemans and other tracks. Had an amazing life and when he was 80+ a few years ago decieded to climb a ladder and clean his gutters. A neighbor found him dead who knows how many hours later. What a crappy way to end a great life. Some people are just stubborn. ... Mike

 

[TimberMcPherson]

Good results

An older man I knew flew spitfires for the british in WWII. Flew floatplanes in alaska. Raced cars at Lemans and other tracks. Had an amazing life and when he was 80+ a few years ago decieded to climb a ladder and clean his gutters. A neighbor found him dead who knows how many hours later. What a crappy way to end a great life. Some people are just stubborn. ... Mike

Oh thats a shame, but he defied alot of odds to get to his age.

I just got home, wife said "you have to call your dad."
Called him feeling a little anxious.

Heres some of the conversation from him.
"Jeeze that harness is great, I thought it was going to be a pain in the ass but it was good, I did try to put it on backwards at first. I just used the rope and the waist line (what he calls the flip line) and didnt have to work off the ladder at all. You can be tied in the whole time, I wouldnt have believed it if I hadnt done it. I took my time and really enjoyed it."

"Those wedges are wonderful, I wish I had got some sooner, we didnt have to use the landcruiser so much. boy they really push that tree over, such control and I followed all the things you said with my cuts and I have to say you were right about a few things."(I just about fell over with that massive complement.)

"That saw is a bloody ripper, I just cant believe how well it cuts, it just makes my little husky seem so slow. I used the mitt thing and I dont like it but I will use it as I figure if you do, maybe I should to. Thanks mate."

So at least he survived that job and it sounds like he had a good time and was a little safer this time around. Im still not 100% happy with the situation but thats my family for you.

Thanks for the offer treeoperations, my old mans just out of tauranga, I figure you in the big aucks arent you?

 

[treeoperations]

yeah i am mate, its where the business is based for me and my target client base is also more common up here. youd be surprised how often i travel away from auckland tho haha i have clients that pay me to travel i try to give work thats away from home to local contractors i know that are closer but they wont wear it they want me which is nice.

glad to hear ya old man got on ok sounds alot like my grandfather to bloody stubborn for his own good.

 

[Toddppm]

Sounds like you might have just started out new branch company where your dad is!



We went to visit my dad one weekend and found a dead oak he was working on near the barn with two wooden ladders tied to it. 1 from the ground and the next up in a crotch about 20 ft. higher I had done differerent trees for them many times, I don't know why he wanted to risk it all for that without calling me? Maybe he figured I was busy with the kids or something?