Ongoing MS 200T Carburetor Issue

[HandLogger]

The carbs are made in China you know.

Made in China by a company that's [apparently] owned by Andreas Stihl AG & Co.

Stihl made their choice. I'm merely giving honest feedback to others suffering with what is clearly an issue related to a poor design choice. That's not their customers' fault.

 

[a. palmer jr.]

The carbs are made in China you know.

As expensive as these saws are, why do they have to buy anything from China? I'm sure a Walbro wouldn't break the bank, or are they making them there too?

 

[lone wolf]

As expensive as these saws are, why do they have to buy anything from China? I'm sure a Walbro wouldn't break the bank, or are they making them there too?

I just dont have a lot of trust in China made stuff!Jap made is much better .

 

[HandLogger]

Walbro Carb on an MS 200T?

Talking 200T's, here's some vids of a 12" bush setup, a contract pruning saw. Stock engine running a Walbro non-accel pump( ie - non problem) carb off an 023, muffler restrictor removed, 1/4" 7 tooth sprocket.

pgg: I just read through an older thread entitled 200T Build. In Post #57, you mentioned using a Walbro carburetor off an 023 [apparently] on a stock MS 200T. If so, please let us know which Walbro carb you used and how it all worked out.

Thanks for your time

 

[pgg]

pgg: I just read through an older thread entitled 200T Build. In Post #57, you mentioned using a Walbro carburetor off an 023 [apparently] on a stock MS 200T. If so, please let us know which Walbro carb you used and how it all worked out.

Thanks for your time

you need old spare carbs laying around and plenty of bits and pieces to be converting carbs, the 023 carb was a WT286A, ran sweet, but you need to swap in the 200T linkages re-position fuel spigot and plug up impulse holes etc.. (zama stuff won't fit walbro stuff either) There's nothing wrong with Zama carbs, walbro carbs are no less or more reliable, the troublesome accel-pump B.S. you don't want or need in the real world, a good plug and play carb for a 200T is a CIQ S16A55P which has no accel pump,(good luck on finding one though) I'm running one at the moment, it's off an 020T and must be getting on to ten years old, no troubles with it whatsoever

 

[parrisw]

What do they say a picture's worth, Matt? Cheers again.

I'm not a Stihl repair tech, so I guess there's really no shame in asking: What in the hail is a "compensating" carburetor?

I'm assuming that it's a way to compensate for air loss -- as in when the filter starts to clog up --but I'm not sure about that. If my guess is good, however, the compensation feature of the carburetor in this particular saw never worked very well. In fact, this saw never ran well when the filter got dirty.

Here's another photo of the saw's carburetor. Is there anything here that shows more about the type of carburetor we have?

View attachment 220425

The best thing I have found to do is to just use the existing carb and block off the accell pump, only cost you a little time and a few pennies of JB Weld. Take out the brass plug covering the throttle shaft, remove butterfly, remove throttle shaft, take out plunger and spring, take off o-ring, fill o-ring groove with JB coat some on the piston, slide back in hole with no spring, now clean off excess JB that oozed out, take off the small aluminum welch plug on the opposite face of the carb and now fill that cavity with JB weld, let cure over night, put back together.

 

[HandLogger]

I've read a lot about this now ...

... and it would seem that there are several different possible causes of our MS 200T issues (high speed idling and bogging at trigger pull). At this point, however, I believe we'll order a Zama C1Q-S16A. Considering that our current carburetor -- the Zama C1Q-S61D 434A -- has an accelerator pump, it seems highly advisable to have a more reliable carb on hand. That way, even if our problems are caused by a different failure -- i.e., bad seals or bad rings -- we're prepared in advance for the dreaded Zama carb accelerator pump issue that seems so common among the 200T owners on the AS.com forum.

After the new carburetor is installed, I'll take the saw back to the woodlot, adjust it and report back with the results. In the end, I hope we'll have an up to date thread for other MS 200T owners to research.

Thanks to all for their time and their thoughts.

I'll be back,
HandLogger

 

[HandLogger]

Update

UPDATE: (1) Zama C1Q-S16A found and ordered. Hope to have the carburetor in hand by the end of this coming week (by Feb 10, 2012) and installed by the weekend.

Once again, I will update this thread with the results once the new carb has been installed and adjusted.

 

[parrisw]

UPDATE: (1) Zama C1Q-S16A found and ordered. Hope to have the carburetor in hand by the end of this coming week (by Feb 10, 2012) and installed by the weekend.

Once again, I will update this thread with the results once the new carb has been installed and adjusted.

Nice! How much time does the saw have on it? If it still run erratic a little after, don't keep running it, don't want to score the cylinder from it keep going lean, the crank seals and intake boot, impluse, can and will leak on a high hour saw.

 

[parrisw]

High hour 200T pressure testing. This is how to check.

Take the tank off, install intake boot and the plastic clamp, you can see the old intake boot leaking like crazy, and the crank seal too. This saw ran like crap and had a good carb. Crank seals on these are a real pain in the ass to take out.

Table of 200's being repaired.

 

[HandLogger]

Specifics

parrisw: The MS 200T we're working on was purchased in 2007, and is not used on a daily basis. We manage forest land, so the saw is used only when we're up in a tree or whenever we have windthrow (killer tree) issues. Consequently, our larger Stihl saws get used more than our top handle saws ... but if I had to guess, I'd say that this particular saw has less than 500 hours of use on it.

If the saw doesn't adjust properly after the new carb is installed and adjusted, we will definitely begin the testing process -- and thanks a lot for the great photos!

Here's a photo of the saw we're presently working on:

It was cleaned very thoroughly when it's factory carb -- the Zama C1Q-S61D 434A -- was removed and modified.


Cheers,
HandLogger

 

[parrisw]

parrisw: The MS 200T we're working on was purchased in 2007, and is not used on a daily basis. We manage forest land, so the saw is used only when we're up in a tree or whenever we have windthrow (killer tree) issues. Consequently, our larger Stihl saws get used more than our top handle saws ... but if I had to guess, I'd say that this particular saw has less than 500 hours of use on it.

If the saw doesn't adjust properly after the new carb is installed and adjusted, we will definitely begin the testing process -- and thanks a lot for the great photos!

Here's a photo of the saw we're presently working on:


It's was cleaned very thoroughly when it's factory carb -- the Zama C1Q-S61D 434A -- was removed and modified.


Cheers,
HandLogger

That looks like a nice well cared for saw.

I bought a new 200T for myself a few years ago, and I'm guessing less then 10 hours on it, I don't use it allot, was just up a tree today with it, great saws. I keep wondering how long the carb in it will last.

 

[a. palmer jr.]

So, is an 020T preferred to the 200T if both were in equal condition?

 

[lone wolf]

So, is an 020T preferred to the 200T if both were in equal condition?

Negative on that!The MS200T has bigger tranfers and runs a little stronger.

 

[lone wolf]

Handlogger how do you know your carb is bad and not a vac leak on the saw? :confused2:

 

[HandLogger]

Handlogger, how do you know that your carb is bad and that there's not a vacuum leak on the saw?

There are a few reasons why we are investing in the carburetor first, Lone Wolf:

When we first began having trouble with this particular MS 200T, it could only be rectified by having a super clean air filter installed. This indicated to us that the saw was air-starved (running rich). As I wrote about earlier in this thread, the high-speed (H) adjustment screw on the factory carburetor -- a Zama C1Q-S61D 434A -- was limited at the factory with a plastic cap, a steel post and a "skirt" that is cast into the body of the carb. This "limiting assembly," as I call it, was cut away to free the H adjustment screw for more adjustability and, although this modification did get the saw to run better, it did not restore proper saw operation.

According to what I've read on the AS.com forum, among others, the Zama accelerator pump model carbs -- like the S61D we now have -- are notorious for malfunctioning, so, even if our carb is still good, it will give us a major headache eventually. Add this to more than one recommendation "to swap out what you have for a known good carb," and we thought it wise to get ourselves a reliable carb without an accelerator pump. The carb we've got on order -- a new Zama C1Q-S16A -- cost us just over $60.00 (shipped), so, when compared to what a replacement carb from the Stihl dealer would've cost us (over $100.00), we decided to invest in a "known good carb."

Lastly, we don't own the test equipment that's been mentioned in some of the forum posts. If the carb we have on order doesn't end up rectifying our issue, we will begin researching test equipment. At this point, however, it seems logical to try a reliable replacement carburetor.

By the way, it's a long haul for us to get to a Stihl dealer with a certified repair tech, so we do have an interest in becoming self-sufficient when it comes to our Stihl saws.

Hope this clarifies what we're thinking,
HandLogger

 

[belgian]

I like your thinking, because of the low hour runtime. My 200 had problems with the accelerator type carb already after 50 h or so. I repaired the O-ring that solved the problem for now, but if it occurs again, I'll go the JB weld route to block off the pump circuit, like Parris indicated.

I am glad we are able to solve the problem ourself; I'd hate to add more $$$$ in a Stihl top dollar saw, because of a obviously poor choice for a chinese crap carburator by Stihl. Guess they can afford it.

 

[Zippy]

MS200T accel circuit

After reading advice on this forum I have fixed several MS200T's with ranges of poor throttle response from sometimes bogs on accel to won't run at all.

The fix that worked for me each time was the JB weld in the accel circuit (remove butterfly and shaft, welch plug, piston, spring and glue it up etc).

I passed the advice on to a mech who looks after saws for an arborists and he's had good success putting thick grease into the accel piston to block it. If you're squeamish about jb-welding a carb (and it doesn't seem right first time you try it out) you could go for grease and see if it does the trick.

Maybe I shouldn't assume this is the answer for your saw just because it worked for mine, but a dollop of grease into the accel piston would take less than 15 mins to try out and you can always wash it out after if you choose to.

 

[SCHallenger]

MS 200T carb issue

Subscribing!!

 

[ZeroJunk]

Just curious, did they correct that in the MS201 ?