Oregon chain filing - file "down angle"

[lambs]

Sharpening is an art. Jigs and stump vises/bench clamps and computer guided robots take the feel out of it; not to mention rotary grinders and their high speed temper strippers. It's like dragging your fine kitchen cutlery through one of those edge rapers in the drawer or worse, on the counter top.

And guys who don't sharpen in the field? Try driving an hour back to the shop when you're three days behind schedule and you just rocked you chain. You sit on the stump, put the saw between your feet, grasp the blade with you free hand, pull the appropriate file from your rule pocket, and start polishing that tooth right there in your face. 10-20 minutes later, you've had a good little break and you're ready to letter 'er rip. "Put your extra loop on," I hear some say. Why? It needed to be sharpened, and I needed a break.

The best part about being able to put a shaving edge on your teeth by hand, is that when that day comes that you don't have all the gizmos, you still can.

I hand file and grind chain as well. When I get dull in the field, I look at the chain. If it needs to be ground, I put on a fresh chain. If I can touch it up instead, I do.

I agree a grinder takes the feel out of it, but if you practice using a grinder you will find you can kiss the cutters with the wheel and get a great edge. If you have a CBN cyclone type wheel, you almost never get a burned cutter.

This isn't a grinder thread, so I'll stop there....but there are times when a grinder is a good idea.

 

[roberte]

I guess I need to elaborate on why I don't sharpen in the field.
Because I take EXTRA SAWS.
Break time comes when it is time to gas and oil fill.
Again , if free hand filing let's you sleep at night, go for it

 

[Incomplete]

Man developed machine tools to take the feel out.

And that is why craftsmanship is dying in this country: fat, lazy, Americans. I'm fat, have an indolent streak, and am American, so I'm preaching to myself.

Blade???

Oh, I beg you pardon, Chain Guide and Chain.

The edge is important, but so are the angles and lengths. No hand filing will ever be as precise or accurate as using a jig.

As a realistic perfectionist, I ask "Why?" The chain doesn't care. The wood certainly doesn't care. The only thing that matters is that you don't cut them too blunt, but any properly instructed child knows that. Meh.

Proof why I shouldn't text before coffee: I'm not quite human yet.

 

[sachsmo]

It doesn't take 10-20 minutes to touch up a chain, if you know what you are doing, and have the right file ready (of course you do).

Apparently you never really rocked a chain?

 

[Incomplete]

Apparently you never really rocked a chain?

Of course not! He is the Chuck Norris of chainsaws! His chains don't get rocked, the rocks get rocked!

 

[sachsmo]

Remember where Niko is from!

 

[roberte]

As a realistic perfectionist, I ask "Why?" The chain doesn't care. The wood certainly doesn't care. The only thing that matters is that you don't cut them too blunt, but any properly instructed child knows that. Meh.

Proof why I shouldn't text before coffee: I'm not quite human yet.

Oh ok

 

[Incomplete]

remember where niko is from!

bwahahahahaha!

 

[Tzed250]

And that is why craftsmanship is dying in this country: fat, lazy, Americans. I'm fat, have an indolent streak, and am American, so I'm preaching to myself.



Oh, I beg you pardon, Chain Guide and Chain.



As a realistic perfectionist, I ask "Why?" The chain doesn't care. The wood certainly doesn't care. The only thing that matters is that you don't cut them too blunt, but any properly instructed child knows that. Meh.

Proof why I shouldn't text before coffee: I'm not quite human yet.

A chain isn't a gazebo, it's a cutting tool.

It's a guide bar, or simply the bar.

Care is an emotion. If the angles don't matter then why do the makers specify them?

When you become a properly instructed child, let us know.

 

[woodyman]

If a guide lets you see what you are doing, and can be adjusted accordingly, they may be useful - but any guide surely will slow the process down severely. The fastest gudes to use likely is the Husky roller guides, but those aren't perfect either...
Those bar mounted guides looks like they are just bait to draw money from easily fooled costumers to me, no more, no less.
That you have to mount them on the bar is by itself an insult, and it eats time. How are you going to feel what the file is doing, and see it, when it is locked in that contraption?

I got to disagree on the"slow the process down severely"I have been using a Granberg for 30 years and can set it up and file with my eyes closed,I can hand file to.The Granberg puts a even angle on all cutters.All that I have talked to that have used one say its too hard to set up and use.I believe this to be true if you are a retard.I would like to have a sharpening race with a hand filer.

I do file from the inside out.The instructions say to go from outside in.Inside out makes it go very fast and a little bur does not hurt when cutting firewood.All my saws are ported,I don't care how long it takes me to sharpen a chain.
Oh yeah,I do 10-30.

 

[Philbert]

I have been using a Granberg for 30 years . . .

(still working on that first chain Woodyman?)

I like the Granberg style filing guides.

They are not perfect. They take a little getting used to. The instructions are not as clear as they should be. The product finish/quality is not as good as it should be. I would like them to clamp more securely on the bar (maybe some rubber grippy stuff inside and a second thumb screw ?). They might not be as fast as a free-hand touch up.

But I can get really sharp, really consistent cutters with them.

Philbert

Other comments - http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/193630.htm

P.S. - if they would sell these so that they worked with square ground chain, like a couple of A.S. members modified them to, they would sell a ton more of them, seeing that they are 1/20th the cost of a Silvey grinder!

 

[Jimmy in NC]

P.S. - if they would sell these so that they worked with square ground chain, like a couple of A.S. members modified them to, they would sell a ton more of them, seeing that they are 1/20th the cost of a Silvey grinder!

If they did, I'd try square chain. None of the local people I've found even know what Square Ground Chain is....let alone find someone that can show me how to sharpen it.

 

[Philbert]

If they did, I'd try square chain. None of the local people I've found even know what Square Ground Chain is....let alone find someone that can show me how to sharpen it.

Couple of related threads (I repost these links so that people can find them - I have trouble finding them sometimes, even though I know that they are there!)

- http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/69509.htm

- http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/206564.htm

Philbert

 

[Termite]

If they did, I'd try square chain. None of the local people I've found even know what Square Ground Chain is....let alone find someone that can show me how to sharpen it.

Yes, I know what you mean about square ground chain. Guys who have spent there whole life logging say yea I use chisel chain and then I try to explain square ground to them.

 

[Oregon Engineer]

Philbert is right.

>>>>>>2) The asterisk * you mention has to do with the standard, flat style, file guides. If you use one of these (whatever brand), they are made to ride on the tops of the cutters in order to hold the file at the correct height/depth. This prevents them from being used at the 10 degree tilt.<<<<<

That asterisk is in reference to the flat file guide that clamps on to the file. Use it as zero down (90 degrees to the cutter).

As far as question number one goes; Is it worth it?
The short answer is yes.
The long answer is that you need to get all the other settings right too; top plate angle, hook angle, % file exposed, file diameter, clean out the gullet, and then add the 10 degree down angle to the position. It will make the cuttter more efficient.
Some people like it and some don't. Some use fixtures and some file by hand.
I don't think anyone is doing it "wrong".
I'm just telling you what the test data shows when the chain is prepared to the specifications.
Oregon Engineer

Back to the OP's Original Questions . . .



So, there are really 2 questions here:

1) Is the 10 degree angle worth it? and,

2) What about the file guides?

1) This was addressed above. Specs typically state a 10 degree angle for full chisel chains. Some guys think that it makes a difference in cutting performance. Some guys think that it is not worth the extra steps, especially when setting up a grinder or filing jig, etc.

If you use one of the bar-mounted file frames (Oregon, Granberg, etc.) that has the tilt option/adjustment built in, this is not a problem. Just an extra step when you change sides. Of course, you don't have to do this if you don't want to - back to that opinion thing in #1.

Which ever way you go, you can get very sharp, very consistent cutters with this type of guide.

Philbert

 

[Tzed250]

Stihl specifies 0*, but ~20 years ago they spec'd 10*.

 

[lambs]

When I hand file I use a Stihl file guide / holder. I think you can get some up angle on the cutter, although it may not be 10 degrees.

 

[Philbert]

Hi guys here are a few pics that may help . . .

I think that this illustration from the Carlton Complete Guide to Saw Chain may help illustrate.

I don't like the term 'down angle' because in the direction I would file (inside out) it is more of an 'up angle'.

Philbert

 

[sachsmo]

A big old Berserker like Niko should not fret about a pound or 10 eh?

 

[SawTroll]

Apparently you never really rocked a chain?

That makes a completely different story, that has nothing to do with touching up a chain, or normal sharpening (regarding the time factor)! :msp_wink: