Oregon Powersharp chain/system

[pdqdl]

Normally I wouldn't consider using any self sharpening system, but I have a special application where it might pay off.

Sometimes I need to dig a trench through tree roots, and my mini-excavator doesn't always have enough guts to break through all the tree roots. Obviously, it is better for the trees to cut the roots anyway. I don't get into tree roots often enough to have worked out a practical system.

Here is the dilemma: I could buy some carbide tipped chain, but then I need to figure out how to sharpen it. The diamond wheels for carbide chain are very pricey, and the carbide chain isn't cheap, either. I figure I can put the oregon powersharp on my ancient Stihl 009, cut through roots, get in the dirt, and keep running cheaper with this system than anything else.

Obviously, an axe would do the job also, and I suspect a sawzall would get the job done too.

Questions:

1. Does anyone have any better ideas for cutting 4"-10" roots buried in the dirt?
2. Has anybody ever used the Oregon powersharp system?

video here:
Bailey's - Oregon 14" PowerSharp Bar with Sharpener

 

[Tree Pig]

Here you go... best part about it is its quite and no one will catch you using it so add it to the list with fat chicks and mopeds.

Things fun to ride until your friends catch you on one.

[video=youtube;KMXfER-BPh0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMXfER-BPh0[/video]

 

[pdqdl]

That actually looks like a pretty cool tool, except for the $500 price tag. Stick it in my car trunk, and I'll always be ready to go...maybe build a holster for it on the mini-excavator, and then it will be ready for action.

Then again, maybe I will wait until I win the lottery!


Ooops! Really, I was looking for ideas and opinions about cutting tree roots. I have checked up on the threads that discuss the Powersharp system; the Oregon demonstration method of dulling the chain is to run it against a block of concrete. That might be pretty similar to cutting tree roots in the dirt.

 

[ozzy42]

Sawzall

 

[jefflovstrom]

Stihl makes a pre-made carbide chain. I get them for about 32 bucks for a 16". They last longer than you think and when you are done you throw it away. These are carbide impregnated. Hence the price.
Jeff

 

[troythetreeman]

i saw that system you asked about at my saw dealer, i asked about it, they said it works, looked a lot like junk to me but for your app, it might be ok

 

[2treeornot2tree]

I would just us my oldest crappest chain. I know of a guy that uses his saw to bury cables with. He is a construction worker.

 

[Philbert]

1. Does anyone have any better ideas for cutting 4"-10" roots buried in the dirt?
2. Has anybody ever used the Oregon powersharp system?

There have been several threads on the PowerSharp system. Including:
http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/125402.htm
http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/148391.htm

There is also a thread on the 40 volt chainsaw:
http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/179262.htm#post3122956

I have used the PowerSharp chain and it works - but not everybody will like it. Check out the threads above for more specific comments from several A.S. members.

For your application, however, it's not just your chain - you will be pulling all kinds of dirt into your saw as well, messing up the bar, clutch, etc. A reciprocating saw with a demolition blade would kick up less dust, but cut slowly due to the small teeth. I have tree pruning blades for my recip saw (Skil, Bosch, Milwaukee, Craftsman, and others make them - they look just like the tooth pattern on a bow saw) which will cut the roots faster but may not hold up long to the sand and dirt. Anyway, they are a few bucks each, so low risk to try.

If money was not an issue, and if you did it a lot, I am sure you could find a tool, like one of the concrete cutting chainsaws, to use like a ditch witch or stump grinder and cut through those roots, but I don't think that that is your situation.

Philbert

 

[imagineero]

this is one of those situations that just doesn't have a good answer.

I've tried most of the options, and lots of guys here have too. My last round involved me trying a petrol powered 3000psi pressure washer on a big long bed full of stumps, bricks, steel and rocks. Cut right through roots under an inch and stripped the bigger ones bare. Messy as all hell, and dirty too though. Meant I could get in with a saw which was good.

I've tried the carbide chains (expensive but do last pretty long). Tried circular saws, not bad on smaller stuff. I've used a stump grinder on some (works great as long as there is no steel/bricks). I've used a sawzall, with the wood specific blades shown above, and also with demo blades. The demo blades are not worth trying. The wood ones are surprisingly good, and go through roots up to about 6" pretty quick. Bigger than that and they do start to bog down. Mains powered sawzall slays cordless any day.

There's a tool out there specifically made for the job, but I can't find the link for it anymore. Looks like a saw powerhead, but the blade is fixed and just sort of vibrates. looks like a giant knife. They go through roots pretty quick in the videos. There's a similar much scaled down thing available nowadays made by arbortech and probably a few other people, they have blades for bricks, wood, steel etc. Might be a possible. Those giant gas powered ones looked good, I almost thought of buying one and doing a root cutting sub contract service. I think it would pay back pretty soon if the tool is any good.

I'm with the other poster who said you'll wreck your saw. I used to have a crappy stumping saw. It lived a short life, it's dead now. Dirt isn't just hard on cutters - its hard on bars, clutches and air filters. What a lot of guys do here when they need to stump is hire a saw for the day. If you have to do it then at least blow out the roots with your blower, and hose them down too. If they're big then ripping the bark off the side with a shovel or axe helps a lot.

Shaun

 

[imagineero]

found it. its called the allsaw. doesn't look quite as good as I remember now, but I still think that if you could get good blade life it would pay for itself. I've used the bigger demo saws on concrete and brick, and they don't cut that deep. Can't get through double brick with a lot of them.

[video=youtube_share;aIzjQXk-Veo]http://youtu.be/aIzjQXk-Veo[/video]

 

[tree md]

It's a ##### to cut roots anyway you look at it. I have tried using my sawsall before but usually end up draining both 18V batteries before I get through with the job. I just go to my old 192 that I use for a beater saw now.

 

[PowerSharp Eng]

Cutting buried roots

Any chain in the dirt/rocks will have a shorter life. If you are going to use a gas saw then cut at 1/4 to 1/2 throttle. The slower chain speed will make for a longer cut but a lot less cutter damage so the chain lasts longer. The slower speed will also give you time to react when the chain hits a rock.

The typical gas saw will move the chain fast enough that every cutter passes by between 20 and 30 times a second. If a rock is in the path of the cutters every cutter in the loop will hit the same rock 20 to 30 times in a second. The slower throttle speed decreases the number of contacts per second and reduces the impact energy that causes the cutting edges to dub over.

Ditto on the advice to remove as much dirt as possible from around the roots.

PowerSharp was tested with lawncare professionals that were cutting roots for sprinkler installations and roots that were pushing up sidewalks. The lawncare guys liked the fast sharpening, especially since they sharpened chains at their shop and did not always bring enough sharpened chains with them to the job site.

 

[Philbert]

found it. its called the allsaw.

Not that looks like the tool for the job!

There happened to be a woodworking fair in town and I spent some time with the Freud rep. He said that even though they do not make the tree cutting blades like I posted in #8, he thinks that that would be a better blade to use than their carbide tipped demolition blades, which would last a long time, but cut a lot slower.

Philbert

 

[pdqdl]

its called the allsaw. doesn't look quite as good as I remember now, but I still think that if you could get good blade life it would pay for itself. I've used the bigger demo saws on concrete and brick, and they don't cut that deep. Can't get through double brick with a lot of them.

[video=youtube_share;aIzjQXk-Veo]http://youtu.be/aIzjQXk-Veo[/video]

That looks like a great machine for a demolition contractor, but I'll bet it costs way too much for me to ever pay for. I also notice that the cutters seem to be centered on the machine, which would likely reduce its usefulness in most applications.

 

[pdqdl]

Any chain in the dirt/rocks will have a shorter life. If you are going to use a gas saw then cut at 1/4 to 1/2 throttle. [Yep. I figured that out years ago!]The slower chain speed will make for a longer cut but a lot less cutter damage so the chain lasts longer. The slower speed will also give you time to react when the chain hits a rock.

The typical gas saw will move the chain fast enough that every cutter passes by between 20 and 30 times a second. If a rock is in the path of the cutters every cutter in the loop will hit the same rock 20 to 30 times in a second. The slower throttle speed decreases the number of contacts per second and reduces the impact energy that causes the cutting edges to dub over.

Ditto on the advice to remove as much dirt as possible from around the roots.

PowerSharp was tested with lawncare professionals that were cutting roots for sprinkler installations and roots that were pushing up sidewalks. The lawncare guys liked the fast sharpening, especially since they sharpened chains at their shop and did not always bring enough sharpened chains with them to the job site.

I have never heard about running at slower speed, but I'll open my mind to the idea. It seems to me that slowing the chain might slow the dulling rate, but it will certainly reduce the effectiveness of the cut in the wood.

Cutting wood with a chainsaw relies on speed to force a marginally sharp chain into the wood. Slow it down and it just makes heat & dust. I'll have to give "slow it down" a try next time I try plunge cutting in the dirt.

 

[TimberMcPherson]

I have never heard about running at slower speed, but I'll open my mind to the idea. It seems to me that slowing the chain might slow the dulling rate, but it will certainly reduce the effectiveness of the cut in the wood.

Cutting wood with a chainsaw relies on speed to force a marginally sharp chain into the wood. Slow it down and it just makes heat & dust. I'll have to give "slow it down" a try next time I try plunge cutting in the dirt.

Slowing it down is a big help, and if you can use the saw so the dirts not being pulled into the cut helps to. Use the top of the bar and clean the side the chain enters the cut from, it will last alot longer as the dirt and chain have minimal contact time.

A wire brush is really helpful. Waterblaster or the biggest blower you can find to. Use a saw with the smallest bar, save on sharpening time and replacement cost.

 

[lxt]

I rent demo saws for just such applications, The saw I rented & will be for an uproot that is still attahed is the fire mans access saw...the thing cuts through nails, roof material, metal, pipe, wood, block, terracota...etc... rental is only $75.00 for the day!

check with a rental company!


LXT............hope this helps?

 

[tree md]

Slowing it down is a big help, and if you can use the saw so the dirts not being pulled into the cut helps to. Use the top of the bar and clean the side the chain enters the cut from, it will last alot longer as the dirt and chain have minimal contact time.

A wire brush is really helpful. Waterblaster or the biggest blower you can find to. Use a saw with the smallest bar, save on sharpening time and replacement cost.

X2 on the wire brush. I carry one in my saw box for anytime I have yo cut a log in dirty conditions. Save the chain bigtime.

 

[Zale]

I have tried all the above methods, what ever I have used eventually gets dull. No magic bullet. What I usually use now are old pole saw blades. For larger roots, I will use a trenching machine then make the final cut by hand. If you have access to an Air Spade, another good tool to use and prolongs the sharpness of tools.

 

[TimberMcPherson]

check this tool out, it totally rocks when it comes to stumpwork and tough ground planting, we dont know what we would do without it. stumps under 6 inches are no trouble, bigger ones require more slamming but can be done.

The Slammer - Kiwi Super Tool. Made in New Zealand


The vid is quite entertaining