Oregon Vanguard chains

[Blowdown1]

What is the scoop on performance of the Vanguard chains with the special rakers? One came on my 359 and I bought another since it was readily available when I needed a chain. I'm cutting in some dirty blowdowns so I'm not super concerned about top performance. But I'm just wondering how the performance compares to the Oregon LG since I'm guessing the cutters are the same, just different rakers.


And while we're at it, anyone care to give their opinion on mix ratios?

 

[brent denny]

I have never ran any timed cuts between vanguard and lg but my seat of the pants impression is that they are real close. The vanguard even works pretty well for boring. The one big disadvantage is filing those big goofy rakers. It takes more filing. As far as ratios, mx2t at 37.5 to one with a dash of oregano is what I use!

 

[Fish]

Yes, the rakers are a pain to get right, so I do not stock that chain.
After a few sharpenings, the owners are looking for a different type of
chain. I only stock what my customers want.
Maybe they are supposed to be adjusted with a hammer or pair of pliers

 

[Stumper]

I rather like the Vanguard chain. It is the best of the reduced kickback chains IMO. Performance is very close to pro chain- it works for boring as Denny mentioned and it is very smooth running chain. While it requires a special raker gauge to set the rakers I don't find the larger area to be too big of a deal. As you get past the midpoint of the tooth it really performs better if you take the rakers lower than the .025 gap that the common gauge is made for.

 

[Saw Man]

Seems to be a love-hate relationship with mostly full time pro cutters. It's going to be used by more saw makers, and is now required by some logging companies because of performance & safety.

Cutter chassis, rivet hole location, and depth guage were material design changes, benefiting in reduce vibrations up to 30%, and reductions in kickback energy, and possibly frequency.
Even Stihl has now intro'd a partly copied version.

Biggest complaint was that it "feels slow". When asked to describe what does "feel slow" mean, the most common replies were..."doesn't bite, doesn't feel like it's pulling, not grabby".
When explaining how both the cutter chassis/rivet holes, and depth guage were different, most seemed still to again...."feel"....they didn't like it.
When looking at many users chains they were either filing with too sharp of a Top Plate Angle (pointed), and or had too much of a Side Plate Angle (hook).

An Oregons test chart I have shows Vangard is at least equal is speed to LG in all cutting, with the exception of buried boring where it averaged 5% slower, and takes a little more feed pressure.
Hard to notice in vertial cuts, but more evident in horizontal cuts like flushing, notching, or dish cutting.

So, if it took 60 seconds to make a buried bore cut with LG, and it took about 3 seconds more to use Vangard, but vibrations were reduced up to 30%, and the additional safety from reduced kickback frequency AND energy were huge gains....it makes sense to use it as much as possible especially in hard woods, and cold weather.

Due to the depth guage, proper attention to it is more important than before....but because it's a key componet working with the new cutter chassis...it has to be taken better care of than previous designs. Kinda like buying high performance tires and not taking care of cold tire air pressure.

Years ago at a school with Walt Galer he stated that in the commercial market bar & chain wearout is 50% more just because of lack of proper attention to depth guages.
It almost doubles (90%) in the consumer market!

 

[Javelin]

My Redmax 621 saws come standard with it. I have had no complaints whith the performance of it!

 

[Oregon_Native]

I am Not a pro But....

I do like the chain i run it on my PM 610 and it is smooth if you pay attention to the angles it is filed at it works great.

 

[rahtreelimbs]

Vanguard seems to cut as well as Oregon LG

 

[Lawn Masters]

I ran a loop of vanguard chain once, I can say that it did cut nicely. I just think those rakers are a bit strange looking, but it works so I dont mind much.

 

[shalenkur]

I've been running 100:1 mix opti (at about 90:1 actual mix) for three years in all my commercially used 2-cycle equip (mowers, saws, weedeaters, blowers) without a problem. In fact it seems beneficial because the exhaust ports are never dirty . . . less smoke easier on the environment and the lungs. I even trusted it in my 30 year old homelites . . . I guess I'm a believer.

You might want to check for a previous thread or start a new one on mix ratio.

 

[HomeDelight Man]

Hello,
I have had good luck with Vanguard chain, only complaint is filing the rakers. I prefer Vanguard over LG on my Super EZ.

http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment_240.php
http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment_239.php

 

[jimbo1490]

I bought one of those Oregon 20" combos for my Jonsereds 621 and it came with the Vanguard chain. When new it cut quite aggressively for a chain that's rated low kickback. But once I sharpened it a cuople of times it lost a lot of that zeal. I just got it ground at the shop to see if that would help but now it's worse than ever. I have filed the guards down, too. The normal file guides and guard gauges don't seem to work with this chain either. It's been a disappointment really.

Jimbo

 

[Molecule]

vanguard & boring cuts

I think the vanguard takes a lot more than 5% more work in a boring cut ... admittedly, for comparison, I was burying a 20" bar with an underpowered saw (a 540). The vanguard was new and seemed sharp, the LP (with bumper drive link) was file sharpened, and the rakers might have been a little low. I found that when the the leading edge of the vanguard rakers (look closely at the leading edge of those rakers) come round the tip, I think they are trying to grab wood, like a dull cutter. So, the bore goes in just fine, but at the end of the bore, when you shift your feed to run the crosscut, the vanguard rakers on a buried bar will start to "shuck n jive" in the wood, and will shake your saw pretty good. (poetry?) The "fight" will continue through the crosscut. By the end of a long swing, you will realize that keeping on top of that fight was more work than it seems at the time. (5% is way too low). It also distracts your mental attention. I wonder whether a deep boring cut at the end of the day with that chain might not be dangerous for that reason. Not so with LP/LG.

Also, I dont' think the vanguard chain has the "haul" to clear out the chips on a buried bar - it's like the broad raker on the following vanguard cutter pushes a half-cut chip (say a left side chip) back up into the wood, which is exactly opposite of what you want. The raker on the next cutter of an LP-LG chain (say on the right side) will tilt the prior chip down, preparing it for the next cutter to come along and lop it off.. Maybe that "raker action" is what makes that chain "feel" so smooth. The half-cut chips are being pushed back into the wood instead of being pulled down, by the raker on following cutter.

With tip free during the cut, the vanguard and LP-LG seem comparable for work effort and time.

Also, on a buried cut with vanguard, compared to LP-LG, I seem to remember that the push side of the bar seems to breathe better in a deep cut. That is that when a felling cut is finished, the Vanguard seemed to leave behind (e.g. pack in) a denser layer of chips than the LP. This also requires more operator work. I know it doesn't make any sense, but that's my story and I'm stiking to it...

 

[chainsawworld]

when vangaurd first came out i remember asking myself "why would they put a shovel in front of the cutter"?
the stuff is not really that bad. boring cuts i don't like it but, i do have a helper that loves it. in the woods it seems to keep up. never had a need to time it in squared cants. with so much drag of coarse it will be slower. if you get a good deal on it, run it. marty

 

[jimbo1490]

Speaking of good deals, there's a lot of the pre-packaged Vanguard loops for sale on ebay recently. I bought one for only 1 penny, with free shipping, too! (The guy completed the deal, too!)These were apparently surplussed out from some hardware and home centers. If you need more than 72 drivers you could always join them up.

Jimbo

 

[Oregon_Native]

Just sharpended!

a while back i hit some thing in a snag i was cutting, It turned out to be a fence staple. Anyway's i had to take a good amount of the chain to even it up in doing that i had to take the raker's down. i just used an Oregon .025" gage to set the raker's like a standard chain and it cuts faster than when i started (and it is a new chain first filing.) i also thing i got it a little sharper than it came new.