Oregon vs Stihl

[dingeryote]

and funnily enough most cutters from this part of the world agree with you.
A lot of us tend to migrate towards Carlton for our hardwoods, and particularly firewood cutting.

<edit> I'd love to see sales figures, I'd be betting Oregon would outsell everyone world wide, and it's be interesting to see sales in pro logging regions in particular.

tdi,

I think we covered this before..ain't sure.

Are you guys in Oz and the Kiwi's getting the Made in OOSA Stihl chain or the German stuff?

I know the Oregon stuff is the same, and it dosn't hold a feather to RSC on holding and edge for me and other gents that cut around here. That's why we pay an extra 7 bucks a 20" loop for the Stihl chain.

Just cuz you called "Mule fritters" and mentioned Carlton semi-chisel holding up beter than RN/RMC, I done went and gotta couple loops and have been running them in some particularly raunchy Oak, Cherry, and elm I have along a ditch line. So far so good, and holding up well to the sand impregnated bark like the USA Stihl RM, but still too early to form a solid opinion.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[Pissfirwillie]

I think the stihl chains being better is mostly bull. Oregon seems to get sharper for me. Stihl may hold an edge slightly longer, but its not worth the difference in price IMO. They also don't seem to be made of a bit harder steel than oregon to me. Every stihl chain i've had actually felyt softer.

I agree on the Oregon/Stihl comparison, and we log in Northern California (well we used to). They seem to grind about the same and dull about the same. It would be great to have someone do a rockwell test on Stihl cutters and Oregon cutters to see which one is really harder. I bet they are so close, it is not worth arguing.

 

[windthrown]

No comparison. I have used both and Stihl bars and chains are far better. I have had Oregon bars delaminate on me, and Oregon chains are softer than Stihl (and Carlton) and do not hold an edge as long. Oregon files do not last as long as Stihl files either.

Chains:
Stihl #1
Carlton #2
The rest...

Bars:
Stihl #1
GB a close #1.1 (I like the GB solid bars a tad better than ES)
The rest...

Oregon stuff is no longer on my shopping list.

 

[Pissfirwillie]

When it comes to bars, nothing lasts like a Cannon (Woodlandpro), hands down and I have run em all. They are heavier though, and once you pack an Oregon lightweight bar around for a day, it is hard to go back.

 

[tdi-rick]

tdi,

I think we covered this before..ain't sure.

Are you guys in Oz and the Kiwi's getting the Made in OOSA Stihl chain or the German stuff?

I know the Oregon stuff is the same, and it dosn't hold a feather to RSC on holding and edge for me and other gents that cut around here. That's why we pay an extra 7 bucks a 20" loop for the Stihl chain.

Just cuz you called "Mule fritters" and mentioned Carlton semi-chisel holding up beter than RN/RMC, I done went and gotta couple loops and have been running them in some particularly raunchy Oak, Cherry, and elm I have along a ditch line. So far so good, and holding up well to the sand impregnated bark like the USA Stihl RM, but still too early to form a solid opinion.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

Mate, I think we have discussed this once or twice :monkey:

Both Matt/MCW and Rooshooter have a ton more experience with different chains than I do, and they are adamant that their Carlton Semi held up better than the Stihl chain, and we get the Swiss made stuff here. (not sure about the Kiwi's, and where the hell is Steve the Kiwi these days ??)
The only Stihl chain I have is RSC and I've not used it yet, so not a fair comparison.

 

[super3]

I have always used Stihl ES bars but recently bought a Cannon bar for my 372. It seems to cut smoother than the ES bar and it may be because the bar groove is milled.

Any non laminated bar will have a milled slot

 

[pgg]

For a start, brand new oregon chain is useless unless you skim down the drags. Stihl chain seems to hold sharp longer than oregon chain only from brand-new till the first sharpen, after that there's no difference between oregon and stihl chain. Under all conditions and variables neither brand consistently out-lasts the other, they both wear down and you get a new one...

 

[MCW]

Both Matt/MCW and Rooshooter have a ton more experience with different chains than I do, and they are adamant that their Carlton Semi held up better than the Stihl chain, and we get the Swiss made stuff here.

I'd like to say I've got a reasonable amount of experience Rick, but Laurie (rooshooter) and Bob (BobL) would pump me in total. Bob has some interesting hardness tests on chain that I think he may have done himself? If you do a search on this site you should find it.
One thing I have done is compare chains together on the same wood (and even on the same loop) and I can honestly say in semi chisel Stihl has been far from impressive. When you pay around USD$120 more for a 100' roll in Australia its bye bye for Stihl as far as I'm concerned.
I know in 3/8"LP Carlton is the preferred chain for Almond pruning contractors that I've spoken to (very dusty, dirty wood).
Full time firewood cutters and guys with mills that I know also prefer Carlton/Windsor.
In saying that though, a local tree guy (not sure if qualified Arborist but doubt it) said he didn't like Carlton. But then again he only buys one 100' roll of chain every few years so hardly what I'd class as hard core - I'd go through way more than that in one year myself.
I plan to contact quite a big local arborist business and see if I can supply them chain etc. I'm interested to see what chain they prefer as these guys are qualified arborists and on the saws full time.
Another full time firewood cutter said he wanted Stihl over Carlton because he's found Carlton too hard to file!
The main problem I have, and I'm not doubting that a LOT of people like/prefer Stihl chain, is whether or not these guys;

1) Do a lot of cutting? - be honest. Even I don't do what I would class as a "lot of cutting".
2) Have even bothered to directly compare chain brands?
3) Just like Stihl because everything they own is Stihl and most people on this site love Stihl.
4) Have ever even cut dirty hardwood?
5) Even know what really dirty, really hard wood is like?

I've cut green wood with all sorts of chain and they're all acceptable, however when you're cutting dirty old Aussie hardwood it then really becomes apparent which chains hold up better.
Please don't think I'm trying to start a Stihl argument or any argument, I'm not. Its just that whenever there is a chain discussion 95% of guys say Stihl RS etc. is the best chain on earth which would tell me, by using Full Chisel, that they really don't know what tough conditions on chain are like.
Matt.

 

[SawTroll]

I agree on the Oregon/Stihl comparison, and we log in Northern California (well we used to). They seem to grind about the same and dull about the same. It would be great to have someone do a rockwell test on Stihl cutters and Oregon cutters to see which one is really harder. I bet they are so close, it is not worth arguing.

Someone did a while ago - as I remember the outcome, the Stihl steel was the softest, not the hardest. I believe the better stay-sharp is due to thicker chrome, not to the steel that is used.

A side-effect is that you can't get them quite as sharp - but I believe it really matters just for the race guys........

 

[MCW]

I believe the better stay-sharp is due to thicker chrome, not to the steel that is used.

Have to agree there Sawtroll. Chain manufacturers have stated in the past that it is mainly the chrome hardness that affects the durability of a cutter.

 

[Bret888]

I have to wonder in this day and age, how much variation you get, lot to lot, in chain that comes out of the same plant? It seems that opinions, and informal tests vary a lot. As far as I can tell, Blount owns all the big names, except Stihl. Do material specs vary, from one name to another, under the same ownership? Does different spec material get a different name, depending on how good it is?
It is interesting to see, that Blount won a patent infringment case, against what I am guessing a chinese bar mfgr.
http://www.blount.com/index.htm

 

[Bret888]

My dealer says the same thing sawtroll says, about the chrome. He told me when Ray Carlton was running the company, they had the thickest chrome, and the best chain. Now he says there is not much difference.

 

[stipes]

Correct me if I'm wrong on this....

I always loved the Oregon products,,back in the old school days it was the s**t to have a Oregon bar and chain on..Today they still are good decent brand and will stand up behind their stuff....The bars and chains nowdays are just a tad softer than the Stihls bars and chains seem like to me...

 

[SawTroll]

Oddly enough, Oregon stuff seem to be held in much higher regard in Germany than in the US........

 

[windthrown]

My GB Pro Top solid bars are way different than my Stihl ES solid bars. I actually prefer my GB bars slightly to the ES bars. Here are some of the differences:

1) GB is narrower and straighter, Stihl ES is more oval
2) GB bars have the nose tip grease holes, ES does not
3) GB bars have a 45 degree cant to the oil ports at the base of the bars, ES bars are 90 degree oil ports

No way they are the same bars. Some bars out there may be the same, but not the ones I have seen here stateside.

 

[tdi-rick]

I hope BobL doesn't mind me posting this, pinched it from elsewhere;

After a lot of mucking about I finally got around to testing the hardness of standard Stihl, Oregon and GB chain.

All are 3/8, regular comp semichisel.

I measured a range of cutters, ties and drive links, at least 3, but typically 6 readings for each link ~ 100 measurements in all. The hardness of the ties, cutters and drive links for the same make of chain are reasonably consistent.

Stihl is the softest, Oregon was on average 3% harder, while GB was on average 4% harder. My measurement tolerance is +/- 2% so there is technically NO difference between the Stihl and Oregon chains, and the difference between Stihl and GB is borderline and would require more testing to confirm this as a real difference. I would like to be more definitive but this would take far longer than I have time to devote to this activity.

Remember this scientific hardness data and does not necessarily translate into how easy chains are to file or how long they take to wear - this depends on many other properties of materials. For example a material can be softer than a another material but more abrasive resistant - so the overall wear is less.......

.......For completeness the chains I tested were

Oregon Chain numbers 72 (tie), 75 (cutter and driver) and 91 (driver)
It was all pretty much the same.

The Stihl was a chain number 3991 (driver, tie and cutter)

The GB was and A3EP (Carlton) driver, tie and cutter

 

[HuskyPete]

Any non laminated bar will have a milled slot

Non laminated bars may all have milled bar grooves but the bar groove in my Cannon bar is definitely held to tighter tolerances than the Stihl ES. Much less slop and tilt to the chain. Comparing all the brands that Madsen's sells in their store it was obvious that the Cannon was in a class by itself when it came to milling specs.