Outhacked

[MasterBlaster]

I think he's pulling our leg, Leon.

 

[fmueller]

Naw, I'm serious. You guys are right. I should'nt be farttin around without insurance. I'm stickin to my own trees and any relatives that want me to do anything. I've been outhacked. Insurance at this point for me isn't feasable so if I can't fork out the cash I should'nt be messin around for an accident waiting to happen. Maybe down the road I'll figure something out. I gotta admit its been fun though and the extra cash was nice. Besides, I'm tired of being a hack. If I can't do it right I won't do it at all. It still does'nt kill my interest in tree work and I'll try and keep learning stuff. Maybe someday I'll just say screw it all and dive in with insurance and the whole ball of wax. In the mean time, one less hack out there.

 

[jamie]

hack

you aint no hack mofo....you know what you are doing, you like me are a homer.... doing the odd homer here and there....but you have more kit, i borrow it from the boss

keep your kit

jamie

 

[fmueller]

Thanks man, I guess I'll keep it. Just no more work for other people cause of the *&^%$#@! insurance. Merry Christmas.
Frank

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Just do a little math and see how much extra you would have to charge every customer you had last year to afford the policy.

The easy way to look at it is that if you did 50 jobs (once a week on average with a "vacation") last year and it was a $1200 GLIP, then that would be $20 per customer. Could they still afford you?

 

[tinman44]

i'm so confused

ok are we talking about liability or like accident/health? i have liability partner got it for like 500 or something for the year. but as far as if i fall out of tree, or trip on saw since i'm more ground man. i have health insurance from full time job that comes out of my check. that should cover me correct? i mean i pay for it its not workers comp but it would cover me if i got hit by a car by hit and run driver......so.......its just the two of us we are both owner operators we dont need workers comp.......at least i've been told by friend that owns landscaping business

 

[Stumper]

There are a couple of workers comp lovers here who will insist that you NEED it but you are correct-as the owner WC is optional for you.

 

[tinman44]

If you lie (can you say fraud) at the hospital, and say you were not getting paid for the activity that got you hurt(cant you just deny payment then it wouldnt be fraudulent?), then they would fix you up and charge your health insurance company.The big difference is, with WC, is they pay you for lost wages too.Say you get hurt and can't work, whos going to pay your bills?WC is controlled by the state, so it's rules are different by location.

Ok lemme try to get this right cuz i still have mixed reviews maybe i should get with a pro. i work full time, own tree business part time. if i get hurt and cant work my full time, thats ok i have accumulated lots of sick leave, also thats a risk and workers comp wont pay me wages from full time from injury from part timer. so back to point. workers comp covers my employees. wont pay me 50k a year for full time and 25k a year for part time so screwed either way there. blue cross health coverage will cover me no matter how i get hurt because i pay them to do that the insurance that comes out of my full time job check does not cover me at my full time job we have workers comp there, course paper cuts and staple punctures are cheap. so what besides liability do i need? is there a clause in my group health coverage that states when working for others they will not repair me? if so maybe i should look into stopping that insurance and paying for one that covers me everywhere. sorry about no caps but there are . at end of each sentence

 

[Stumper]

Tinman, Check your health policy but you should be fine. Mike is the world's number 1 proponent of State Workers Compensation Ins. He also happens to have the bedside manner of a soft stool sample and is given to authoratative statements based upon his own misunderstanding of reality.

 

[tinman44]

Tinman, Check your health policy but you should be fine. Mike is the world's number 1 proponent of State Workers Compensation Ins. He also happens to have the bedside manner of a soft stool sample and is given to authoratative statements based upon his own misunderstanding of reality.

 

[Ranchero50]

Superhack...

While cleaning up dead wood in an abandoned wood lot for firewood one of the neighboring homemowners walked over and asked if we could drop a 60' locust that had the potential to fall on her two story garage if the wind hit it right and I agreed just out of curtesy. Buddy whipped a chunk of bark at me and called me dirty names for not asking for money to do it. Ended up gettin $30 for gas to drop it. She said she didn't have the $400 a local company was going to charge her to drop it and let it lay.

Jamie

 

[fmueller]

Ah but did you have insurance? If not you are a blasphemer. Never mind the ol lady had no money and needed a tree down, humbug. Must have insurance for the pencil pushers and bureacrats to survive. Actually, I think you did a good thing from one hack to another.

 

[tinman44]

ok sorry to bring this thread back to the top but i have been looking for the "definition" of a "hack". i was assuming its people who have lower rates than others? heres my thing we have insurance, license(not cert.), and equipment. we consider ourselves a company, however we try to beat prices in order to get the job. our main competition is like Davey and Asplundh. so dont feel bad undercutting that conglomerate. anyone here in the southeast maybe could give me an idea on what rates are or how you do estimates? we usually charge by the hour and we're getting ppl that say "wow your competition charges double for that".

 

[OutOnaLimb]

Hey, dont fret to much, Asplundh has plenty of hacks working for them. I was up in Denver last week taking down a big elm hanging over a house when two Asplundh crews where working next door. I watched one guy advance a monkeys fist with a pole saw to get into this cotton wood. It took him like 30 min. to get to the top and tie in to side trim this tree. After I got the tree on the ground the forman of one of the crews came over to chat. He couldnt believe the cool gear I had. He had never even seen a throw ball, a floating D saddle, tress cord or micro pulley, in fact I gave him an extra Sherrill catalog that we had in the truck, but he told me that Asplund wont let them use any gear except what they supply. ie. 4 D saddles, 12 strand arborplex rope, and wood pole saws, that is all, no more, no less. I guess I shouldnt label these guys hacks, they are just left in the dark by the company.

Kenn

 

[Koa Man]

My definition of hack is one who does not care where the cuts are made, will use gaffs on pruning jobs and in general just does shoddy work. It does not matter what he charges. Going lowball to get work is not the way to do it. Don't try to get every job you bid. Be competitive and do high quality work. Over time you will get a good reputation and stay busy just doing repeat and referral work. It will take time, but it will come.

 

[Ranchero50]

Looked at a Red Oak yesterday split into two trunks at the bottom, about 60-70' tall total removal. Half leaning towards a new home, other half into the woods. The house side needs topped and then dropped. Quoted $400 we remove the good wood and move the rest to the woodline. Almost hope we don't get it.

For me a hack is someone who either through ignorance or inexperience is a hazard to himself , his crew, the tree, or the property around the tree through his work. Underpricing for work just means you are working harder for less.

I'm a hack, but at least realize it and am learning fast how to do it correctly.


Jamie

 

[OutOnaLimb]

Roger that, I subbed for a guy about a month ago and he smashed 2 fences on the three jobsites we worked at. His reply was "My brother owns a fencing company, so its no big deal".

Kenn

 

[tinman44]

My definition of hack is one who does not care where the cuts are made, will use gaffs on pruning jobs and in general just does shoddy work. It does not matter what he charges. Going lowball to get work is not the way to do it. Don't try to get every job you bid. Be competitive and do high quality work. Over time you will get a good reputation and stay busy just doing repeat and referral work. It will take time, but it will come.

well we dont damage prune jobs and try to make cuts in the right places and do the best we can on every job. as far as rates we bid at about 75 dollars an hour a piece. so we can take down 2 tree in an hour. if its climbing or just felling we'll still price it 150 to get 2 on the ground if it will only take us an hour to do them both.

 

[Stumper]

Hacking isn't defined by pricing or even licensure or insurance in my opinion. Hacks abuse trees or display general incompetence. Hacks gaff while pruning . Hacks "top" trees. Hacks work with no safety gear. Hacks get paid before final clean-up and are never seen again. Hacks show up drunk or stoned. Hacks don't show up when scheduled and fail to call their client. Hacks hack and haggle at the trees and at other people. Not all hacks do all of these things but all of them are "hackish".

 

[MasterBlaster]

Justin, you win the prize! That's the best definition yet! E-mail Darin your address so he can ship the ms200t out to ya.