Personal?

[ChoppyChoppy]

Not sure why you think pay is crap no vs "back then"?

I started working as a kid in the 90s for $5.15/hr. Adjusted for inflation, that is $7.98. I don't think any state has min wage that low? Here it's $9.75.

I don't normally have trouble finding people to work, but keeping them is a different story. Either they are a good worker and are smart and find easier work (haha) or they realize that they actually have to work for a wage and "it's too hard". Sorry, but if I'm outworking my workers, something is wrong!

The mindset of "go to school and you'll be handed a cush job" is a load of horseshit! Guess what, the country needs ditch diggers just as much as bankers. I'd rather be knee deep in mud with a shovel in hand than have to wear a suit and tie in an office. Each their own though.

 

[hseII]

Not sure why you think pay is crap no vs "back then"?

I started working as a kid in the 90s for $5.15/hr. Adjusted for inflation, that is $7.98. I don't think any state has min wage that low? Here it's $9.75.

I don't normally have trouble finding people to work, but keeping them is a different story. Either they are a good worker and are smart and find easier work (haha) or they realize that they actually have to work for a wage and "it's too hard". Sorry, but if I'm outworking my workers, something is wrong!

The mindset of "go to school and you'll be handed a cush job" is a load of horseshit! Guess what, the country needs ditch diggers just as much as bankers. I'd rather be knee deep in mud with a shovel in hand than have to wear a suit and tie in an office. Each their own though.

These kids coming out of high school have been Mislead.

They've been mislead by their Teachers, guidance councilors, coaches, family members, & even their parents.

They've been told all their lives they can do whatever they set their minds to, but they need a 4 year, or an 8 year degree, or they need to excel at some sport.

The Reality is,
1. Skilled Trades most times typically pay more than the 2-4 year Degree programs, with the same to much less time invested.
2. The chances of being a professional athlete are pretty slim.

Now I'm not knocking Sports, but Reality should factor into the equation at some point: it's playtime for crying out loud.

To be fair, It's not completely the fault of the people above, as those people have just regurgitated what they've been indoctrinated in.

I started noticing this in my area 15yrs ago when I was the pupil, but in reality, this has been going on for 2-3 generations.

A long time classmate & friend of mine, & myself had a guidance councilor get very upset with us because we wouldn't commit to going the Academic
Route after High School. We both more than had the grades, but had no desire Go Get A College Degree In Something, just because it was a degree.

He was pressured into Engineering School, & didn't last a year because he didn't want to go that route: this was a High School Honors student. He chose a path that he truly enjoys as a Shop Technician at a local dealership.

I became an apprentice with a Heavy Equipment Dealer, & went thru a 2 Year Program they participated in, along with the Big Time Heavy Equipment Manufacturer.

The year I completed my Apprenticeship, & went to work full time, I grossed more than my mother did.

I'd been an apprentice 1/2 the year, & she completed her 12th year in administration at the Local University.

When she saw my W-2, she was genuinely pissed that I'd grossed more than her: she had been indoctrinated in the belief that Education is the Answer.

Education is Not the Answer; it should be considered an avenue to gain legitimate employment, but not THE ANSWER.

Skilled Trades aren't only for the people who couldn't make it at a University: right now those Skilled Trades are the most straight forward path to Meaningful Employment.

I could name off instance after instance where some young lad, (or lady,) went the 4 Year Route at a University, completed their degree, & have since abandoned their pursuit of Employment with said Degree.

They are paying off their School Loans, as well as living off of the Trade they have acquired since becoming aware of reality.

Check out the Mike Rowe Works program: Skilled Trades are in high demand right now; I'd say more so than most College Degree Career Paths.

 

[tree MDS]

We have an awesome group now. Took a long time to get there. About 10 guys give or take, but our main lead guy made all the difference. Totally different culture at the shop.
They really pay groundies a $1000 a week out there?

lol,, sounds like the company bathhouse is filling up nicely.

 

[Jed1124]

lol,, sounds like the company bathhouse is filling up nicely.

You should come on board! There's plenty of room on the steam room bench!

 

[beastmaster]

I do believed each generation is getting lazier and more shot out as a whole. Of course there are always exceptions.
Watch some of those old logging videos from the turn of the century. I don't know if i could swing an axe or work a cross cut saw all day for 12 hours. Men build roads with pick axes and shovels.
Kids leaving the farm where working hard and learning responsibility soon after walking. The whole work force in America was more labor intensive.
Things get easier each generation, thats a good thing. But whats not good is lots of people have lost that drive. That since of responsibility and determination.
If you took a 100 Millennials and a 100 born in 1920's handed them shovels told them to start digging who do you think would have the deepest hole?

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

Not sure why you think pay is crap no vs "back then"?

I started working as a kid in the 90s for $5.15/hr. Adjusted for inflation, that is $7.98. I don't think any state has min wage that low? Here it's $9.75.

I don't normally have trouble finding people to work, but keeping them is a different story. Either they are a good worker and are smart and find easier work (haha) or they realize that they actually have to work for a wage and "it's too hard". Sorry, but if I'm outworking my workers, something is wrong!

The mindset of "go to school and you'll be handed a cush job" is a load of horseshit! Guess what, the country needs ditch diggers just as much as bankers. I'd rather be knee deep in mud with a shovel in hand than have to wear a suit and tie in an office. Each their own though.

That is true what you said about having to outwork your workers but you see that is kinda how MDS has to be. I have to do it to if I want to progress and it will wear you out.

Everything else you said is true also and that is why I am holding out until there is nothing to hold on to anymore. At least I got my pride? Well, that's one way to look at it but people have go to stop thinking that everything is a matter of just being able to get someone else to do it because banking pays more and is easier than digging ditches.

It going to hard to grasp that theory but if the President actually has lower restrictions and regulations somehow then people really will see the result of that. They will see the dirt and filth and hear the bad words and tired souls lamenting a hard day's toil. They will see their neat tidy subdivided manicured lots turned back into industrial smog and rivers of fire.

And they should! Maybe then they will realize what is important and what is not.

Like the citizens of Detroit. There is a lot of talk about what is happening in the world and why and how and all that but just look at what the peasants are actually doing. Communism is what it is but there is no real leader except the people's will to live and that's all they are doing. They stay in their foreclosed houses and plant gardens and trade amongst themselves. This is driving the criminal element away but there will be a time when it comes to take the gardens instead of the drugs.

What would you do in that situation? I am pretty sure I would stay. The only thing that happened to that area of the globe is that the car business failed, its still useable land, very suitable to sustain life, A NEW FRONTIER!



Using what we know today Detroit could become a lush rainforest with sustainability for people. It kinda already is.

 

[gorman]

I do believed each generation is getting lazier and more shot out as a whole. Of course there are always exceptions.
Watch some of those old logging videos from the turn of the century. I don't know if i could swing an axe or work a cross cut saw all day for 12 hours. Men build roads with pick axes and shovels.
Kids leaving the farm where working hard and learning responsibility soon after walking. The whole work force in America was more labor intensive.
Things get easier each generation, thats a good thing. But whats not good is lots of people have lost that drive. That since of responsibility and determination.
If you took a 100 Millennials and a 100 born in 1920's handed them shovels told them to start digging who do you think would have the deepest hole?

Just tell them there's an eight ball buried somewhere.

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

I do believed each generation is getting lazier and more shot out as a whole. Of course there are always exceptions.
Watch some of those old logging videos from the turn of the century. I don't know if i could swing an axe or work a cross cut saw all day for 12 hours. Men build roads with pick axes and shovels.
Kids leaving the farm where working hard and learning responsibility soon after walking. The whole work force in America was more labor intensive.
Things get easier each generation, thats a good thing. But whats not good is lots of people have lost that drive. That since of responsibility and determination.
If you took a 100 Millennials and a 100 born in 1920's handed them shovels told them to start digging who do you think would have the deepest hole?

I often think that we are getting soft. Even a trained body builder on coke couldn't swing an axe all day, he sure ain't gonna!

Sometimes I have the sense of responsibility and determination to sit my tired aching ass down and lay around til I stop aching so much.

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

These kids coming out of high school have been Mislead.

They've been mislead by their Teachers, guidance councilors, coaches, family members, & even their parents.

They've been told all their lives they can do whatever they set their minds to, but they need a 4 year, or an 8 year degree, or they need to excel at some sport.

The Reality is,
1. Skilled Trades most times typically pay more than the 2-4 year Degree programs, with the same to much less time invested.
2. The chances of being a professional athlete are pretty slim.

Now I'm not knocking Sports, but Reality should factor into the equation at some point: it's playtime for crying out loud.

To be fair, It's not completely the fault of the people above, as those people have just regurgitated what they've been indoctrinated in.

I started noticing this in my area 15yrs ago when I was the pupil, but in reality, this has been going on for 2-3 generations.

A long time classmate & friend of mine, & myself had a guidance councilor get very upset with us because we wouldn't commit to going the Academic
Route after High School. We both more than had the grades, but had no desire Go Get A College Degree In Something, just because it was a degree.

He was pressured into Engineering School, & didn't last a year because he didn't want to go that route: this was a High School Honors student. He chose a path that he truly enjoys as a Shop Technician at a local dealership.

I became an apprentice with a Heavy Equipment Dealer, & went thru a 2 Year Program they participated in, along with the Big Time Heavy Equipment Manufacturer.

The year I completed my Apprenticeship, & went to work full time, I grossed more than my mother did.

I'd been an apprentice 1/2 the year, & she completed her 12th year in administration at the Local University.

When she saw my W-2, she was genuinely pissed that I'd grossed more than her: she had been indoctrinated in the belief that Education is the Answer.

Education is Not the Answer; it should be considered an avenue to gain legitimate employment, but not THE ANSWER.

Skilled Trades aren't only for the people who couldn't make it at a University: right now those Skilled Trades are the most straight forward path to Meaningful Employment.

I could name off instance after instance where some young lad, (or lady,) went the 4 Year Route at a University, completed their degree, & have since abandoned their pursuit of Employment with said Degree.

They are paying off their School Loans, as well as living off of the Trade they have acquired since becoming aware of reality.

Check out the Mike Rowe Works program: Skilled Trades are in high demand right now; I'd say more so than most College Degree Career Paths.

You sound quite a bit younger than me but smarter perhaps. I grew up in a time where skilled trades were just blue collar and the difference between white was well known. There was little respect and they would run through their gambits of power.

The whole glamourous job thing is real to people because if you buy enough of it then people will just buy it from you and you can walk around well to do.

Mechanics were just dirty losers, low paid. **** that! You fix it mofo! And when you get someone that really does like fixing stuff and is good at it then all the sudden the tables can be turned.

 

[hseII]

You sound quite a bit younger than me but smarter perhaps. I grew up in a time where skilled trades were just blue collar and the difference between white was well known. There was little respect and they would run through their gambits of power.

The whole glamourous job thing is real to people because if you buy enough of it then people will just buy it from you and you can walk around well to do.

Mechanics were just dirty losers, low paid. **** that! You fix it mofo! And when you get someone that really does like fixing stuff and is good at it then all the sudden the tables can be turned.

That's The Crazy Part: as a society, the Mechanic is just as important as the Accountant.
And the Trash Man, & the Fireman, & the Policeman, & the Tanker Drivers.

Remove any one of those, & trouble is on the horizon.

I'm not an advocate for Socialism, At All, but we as a people need everyone to pull their own weight.

No one is above anyone else.

Typically, That White collar boss needs those Workers more that they need him.

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

Here is something you might find really crazy:

Not to many college students can change a spare tire. The spend their time learning about ways to do business which teaches them business must always do things the cheapest SO if they even try to change their spare they won't be able to because the wrench is made in China!!!!

So they become slick business people always finding a loophole or cashing in a derivative or selling Chinese junk on QVC ( Which employs a lot of people around here) then gripe about paying someone to come fix their tire cause that's ALL he knows how to do. 120K a year for changing tires!???

Why not? Do you see the ******* they have to get for minimum wage?

Where would that platinum blonde with the shaved vagina and the jet black Audi get without that guy?

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

I do believed each generation is getting lazier and more shot out as a whole. Of course there are always exceptions.
Watch some of those old logging videos from the turn of the century. I don't know if i could swing an axe or work a cross cut saw all day for 12 hours. Men build roads with pick axes and shovels.
Kids leaving the farm where working hard and learning responsibility soon after walking. The whole work force in America was more labor intensive.
Things get easier each generation, thats a good thing. But whats not good is lots of people have lost that drive. That since of responsibility and determination.
If you took a 100 Millennials and a 100 born in 1920's handed them shovels told them to start digging who do you think would have the deepest hole?

I'd make a call and have an excavator hauled in, dig the hole and be done in an hour.

And that's a HUGE thing... work smart! Being a "mongo" doesn't impress me.
We had a guy helping put up fence. Instead of taking the skid steer with hole auger out and being done in a day, he spent a whole week digging by hand... and expected a pat on the back.
I called him an idiot.

"Didn't know how you use it". Hmm.. so instead of LEARNING just decide to be stupid? Figure it out. It's a piece of equipment, not a space shuttle!

 

[Tenderfoot]

You sound quite a bit younger than me but smarter perhaps. I grew up in a time where skilled trades were just blue collar and the difference between white was well known. There was little respect and they would run through their gambits of power.

The whole glamourous job thing is real to people because if you buy enough of it then people will just buy it from you and you can walk around well to do.

Mechanics were just dirty losers, low paid. **** that! You fix it mofo! And when you get someone that really does like fixing stuff and is good at it then all the sudden the tables can be turned.

It is a lot worse now in some ways. I have a black friend who works at a car dealership. He gets keys tossed at him like he is the valet if he is in clean clothes. He one of the Gold-level techs there. I got laughed at by a wall street big wig as I was fixing his sink for planning to stay in the trades at 11 pm on a Saturday. Thought it was funny till I pointed out the sink needed fixing no matter how the economy was doing, his stock portfolio and sales commissions are tied to it.

I just cant get over how the older folks I know keep complaining about the generations they raised. My struggle after high school was expecting the same job market my parents had. Both my parents had good jobs out of high school and were able to pay for a 4 year school without too much trouble. I could barely find a minimum wage job and could not afford a car until I was 20. I know a lot of older folks I worked with talked about how much easier it was to start a business then it is now, or how much less regulation there is. Unfortunately, a lot of high school teachers never left school. Just went straight from college to teaching. They are not prepared or equipped to teach students how to cope with the realties of the real world. The disappearance of home economic and shop classes left a sour taste in a lot of peoples mouths. I was not taught enough basic accounting in school to balance my own checkbook or how loans for buying a car worked. I grew up in a post 9-11 & Columbine world too, where everything and everyone is a potential threat. For a long time we were not allowed out after dark and security at schools went crazy. Parents got over protective and summer jobs weren't a thing. No forts in the woods or paper routes for young teens, those would be too dangerous. My parents got DCFS called on them for me being burned all over from a blacksmithing project. Very different world.

 

[hseII]

Here is something you might find really crazy:

Not to many college students can change a spare tire. The spend their time learning about ways to do business which teaches them business must always do things the cheapest SO if they even try to change their spare they won't be able to because the wrench is made in China!!!!

So they become slick business people always finding a loophole or cashing in a derivative or selling Chinese junk on QVC ( Which employs a lot of people around here) then gripe about paying someone to come fix their tire cause that's ALL he knows how to do. 120K a year for changing tires!???

Why not? Do you see the ******* they have to get for minimum wage?

Where would that platinum blonde with the shaved vagina and the jet black Audi get without that guy?

The High Schools have all but done away with Home Economics & Shop Class: this, along with the demonization of HardWorking Heterosexual Men, has caused this crop of no nothings.

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

The High Schools have all but done away with Home Economics & Shop Class: this, along with the demonization of HardWorking Heterosexual Men, has caused this crop of no nothings.

Straight is the new queer?

 

[ATH]

I do believed each generation is getting lazier and more shot out as a whole. Of course there are always exceptions.
Watch some of those old logging videos from the turn of the century. I don't know if i could swing an axe or work a cross cut saw all day for 12 hours. Men build roads with pick axes and shovels.
Kids leaving the farm where working hard and learning responsibility soon after walking. The whole work force in America was more labor intensive.
Things get easier each generation, thats a good thing. But whats not good is lots of people have lost that drive. That since of responsibility and determination.
If you took a 100 Millennials and a 100 born in 1920's handed them shovels told them to start digging who do you think would have the deepest hole?

Listen to the stories of some WWII vets. I'm not sure many born in the last 40-50 years would have been able to make the boat ride over without going mentally AWOL.

 

[hseII]

Straight is the new queer?

Crazy isn't it.

Like Ancient Greece or Rome, huh.

 

[Jason Douglas]

These kids coming out of high school have been Mislead.

They've been mislead by their Teachers, guidance councilors, coaches, family members, & even their parents.

They've been told all their lives they can do whatever they set their minds to, but they need a 4 year, or an 8 year degree, or they need to excel at some sport.

The Reality is,
1. Skilled Trades most times typically pay more than the 2-4 year Degree programs, with the same to much less time invested.
2. The chances of being a professional athlete are pretty slim.

Now I'm not knocking Sports, but Reality should factor into the equation at some point: it's playtime for crying out loud.

To be fair, It's not completely the fault of the people above, as those people have just regurgitated what they've been indoctrinated in.

I started noticing this in my area 15yrs ago when I was the pupil, but in reality, this has been going on for 2-3 generations.

A long time classmate & friend of mine, & myself had a guidance councilor get very upset with us because we wouldn't commit to going the Academic
Route after High School. We both more than had the grades, but had no desire Go Get A College Degree In Something, just because it was a degree.

He was pressured into Engineering School, & didn't last a year because he didn't want to go that route: this was a High School Honors student. He chose a path that he truly enjoys as a Shop Technician at a local dealership.

I became an apprentice with a Heavy Equipment Dealer, & went thru a 2 Year Program they participated in, along with the Big Time Heavy Equipment Manufacturer.

The year I completed my Apprenticeship, & went to work full time, I grossed more than my mother did.

I'd been an apprentice 1/2 the year, & she completed her 12th year in administration at the Local University.

When she saw my W-2, she was genuinely pissed that I'd grossed more than her: she had been indoctrinated in the belief that Education is the Answer.

Education is Not the Answer; it should be considered an avenue to gain legitimate employment, but not THE ANSWER.

Skilled Trades aren't only for the people who couldn't make it at a University: right now those Skilled Trades are the most straight forward path to Meaningful Employment.

I could name off instance after instance where some young lad, (or lady,) went the 4 Year Route at a University, completed their degree, & have since abandoned their pursuit of Employment with said Degree.

They are paying off their School Loans, as well as living off of the Trade they have acquired since becoming aware of reality.

Check out the Mike Rowe Works program: Skilled Trades are in high demand right now; I'd say more so than most College Degree Career Paths.

All great points but how about being in a Skilled Trade AND being highly educated in your field

 

[hseII]

All great points but how about being in a Skilled Trade AND being highly educated in your field

Those normally don't come at the same time, but if that's how you did it, Good For You.

 

[beastmaster]

I know arborist with PhD's, certs, and papered experts, but i know several "arborist", with no formal education at all but know more about trees, tree diseases, tree care, etc.
Those people exist in most fields. Just like the Educated experts who are dumb as a box of rocks.