Pine Beetles, and other info needed

[Lumberjack]

Guy, Mike, and others:

I have been contacted about pine beetles and was wondering if any treatment was effective. The tree has been stress due to the driveway being reinstalled (the roots pushed up the driveway), the contractor removed the roots and did an excellent job of making the current driveway level. However the tree is under its diameter from the driveway and I am certain that is a major stressor on the tree, as well as some stability issues. The tree is massive, its over 100' tall and over 4' DBH.

If not it will be a removal. There is 5 limbs already that have died and there is signs that others arent far behind it. If there is a viable option then I will give it a shot, but I am reasonably certain its a removal.

There is another tree on the property, a huge oak that has galls (i believe that is the correct word). I will go take pics of the twigs, leaves, galls and bark to see whats the best way to go about treating the tree.


Insert info here____________________________ Thanks guys, PHC is where I want to be headed.

 

[Stumper]

Once the beetles are in treatment is pretty iffy. Supposedly some people have had success with Merit but I have observed many wild trees that only lost a portion of the canopy so maybe they were just lucky. The Beetles kill by girdling and /or transmission of fungi. Sometimes they only get a few limbs or the top but usually it is a fast slide into death when the first symptoms get noticed.
Have you determined what beetle is involved?

Re: Oak galls-they are seldom of any significance.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

U of F Pine Beetles Report

Not sure if Lindane is available still, but we gets mo'than our share of pine-borers (had a govt. report from 80's but can't find it); and Lindane was the most named chemical control. A close by pine, especially stressed and/or in same shade as infected tree, seems more succeptible.

After a real dry summer, the protective sap seems low; we get hit big time then; people don't cull a sick tree soon enough, yard can look like fire raged thru mebbe 6 months later. Old timers say you can hear the borers in the trees on still mornings; and they might be right...

 

[Lumberjack]

See the concrete right next to the trunk, it was laid to replace the old about a year ago, major culprit IMO.

Heavy beetles.

The yellow line is across Daniels face, the top of the line is 5'11" off the ground.

Here is the pine.

 

[Lumberjack]

I am talking to the forrester in the morning to talk about the options. I think its slim for the pine.

What are gall treatments? The client complains about the tree being trashy, dropping stuff all the time, alot of galls were on the ground. The tree needs dead wooding for sure.

 

[Lumberjack]

Lindane has been gone for several years.

Meaning? I remember that being a treatment, did any others take its place?

What do you do over there Tree Co? Our trees are similar, as are symptoms and treatments I would immagine.

 

[Stumper]

Sevin (Carbaryl) and Permethrin are used currently as preventatives.-Spray uninfested trees so that when the adults fly they avoid or are zapped by the sprayed trees. I think your big 'un is likely a goner-I'd give it a less than 10% chance of survival based upon what I see in the pics.

 

[Ekka]

Boy oh boy that pine, she's history.

Grind the roots down, add concrete, goes in decline and beetles have a homing beacon. I think the client needs to consider removal, half the food factory has died. We have a pine beetle here that bores around the middle of the trunk for up to 2 years! Our recommendation was to get rid of the diseased, old or unhealthy trees just like yours and BURN the wood, do not mulch your garden with it.

With regards to galls they are caused by a variety of insects such as moths etc, try to cut them off .... prune the branches that they're on off the tree. If you think BS then disect one and you should find either evidence of a bug or the bug itself.

Look for other signs on that oak as to why the bugs are going for it, check the usual basal area for problems, compaction, mulch routine ... you'll notice something as the galls are secondary problem.

Good fun these threads.

 

[Lumberjack]

Sorry folks up top, when I looked back at the thread I didnt see your posts. Thanks for the link spidy and the info Justin.

What role do yall think the driveway had in causeing the tree to become vunerable? The driveway was replaced when the roots lifted that section, and its laying flat now, which means either they poured on top of roots (not likely eh?) or they removed the roots (likely and very near the tree).

Spidys link recommends the application of Dursban (chlorpyriphos) or lindane to nearby trees to protect them. It says that Dursban offers 2-4 months protection, and should be applied from the base of the canopy, to the point of runoff down to the stump.

So that begs, where can I get Dursban?

Here is the overview of the oak, I really DONT think i will be climbing to remove all the galls.

Here is 5'11" Daniel next to the oak. Imagine an ALAP.

http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment_24107.phpIMG]

Here is a closeup of the galls.

[IMG]http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=24109&stc=1

 

[Lumberjack]

 

[old dude]

pine beetles

please keep in mind that not all beetle attacks are successful. In order kill an otherwise healthy pine several things must happen. First, the male beetles that typically attack a pine first in order to create a 'breeding-buduoir' must struggle to keep an air passageway open to their chambers because the tree responds by trying to plug the offending hole with sap. Therefore you can get a feel for the reletive success of an attack by examining the sap (pustules) for closure. A pustual that does not have a small pinhole-like opening for air in all probibility contains a dead male beetle. Those that do in all likelyhood contain a male beetle that is studiously pumping out pheramones in an attempt to attrack the female beetles to his breeding chamber. Should there not be enough female beetles in the area and the passion of the male beetles by and large goes unrequited then the egg- laying female beetles that (are) present may very well fail to achieve a sufficient 'critical-mass' neccessary to bring about the demise of the tree despite the triple threat they pose of gallery excavation, egg laying and the introduction of the so-called (blue-stain) fungus that plugs the vascular system of the tree thus causing its' rapid decline and death.
What's to be done? If this were my problem I would prepare the client/owner for the possibility of the need for an (immeadiate) removal at the very first indication of the tree begining to decline in vigor which of coarse would be the leaves turning a yellowish-green color and the apperance of a reddish-brown frass around the base of the tree and in the bark crevises. This would indicate a successfull colonization of a new generation of beetles. Remove the tree at this time and you pretty much snuff the infestation because the new generation of beetles are at this point in time are still wingless nymths feeding voraciously on the nutrient-rich cambium region of the tree. Should you delay however--- the new generation will emerge within a few days time to seek out other pines in order to repeat the process.
Bottom line: in my humble opinion--hold your fire till you see the whites of their eyes.
Good luck.

 

[Ekka]

Nice work Old Dude.

Hey Lumberjack, you got excellent access there for a cherry picker (we call them an EWP), get one in and cut them galls off. Then consider spraying the tree but preferably not at the same time as you don't want loads of chemicals entering those wounds. Heck, you might as well use that EWP at the same time to get rid of that pine.

Even if you use chemicals to kill those bugs the gall will grow.

And also that EWP will give you an excellent opportunity for an aerial inspection.

 

[pbtree]

Sorry dude, but as to that pine, I be getting the big saws ready for a removal... The sooner the better. That tree is a goner in my opinion...

 

[treeseer]

old dude did you look at those pictures (btw you are next door to me--pm me if you want) The teeny globs of sap are a feeble effort to pitch the critters out; big roots cut, no juice, no defense. Spydey's right about getting a repellent on the others, and get that tree down now!! Ljack if you are serious about PHC get a copy of the Reducing Infrastrucure Damage and Trees and Development books--reviews attached.

Great to have for those rare moments when we can help trees before they are damaged. That contractor needs to get edjerkated on how to build a driveway ABOVE tree roots. Property owner overreacted to cracks imo.

Re galls, some kinds are cosmetic and some are pathogenic; this is a report i did for a college in VA:

"The tree is infested with gouty oak gall, Callyrhitis quercuspunctata. (punctures oaks, get it? ) “…control options are not very satisfactory”, according to Lloyd’s PHC manual; they include pruning out the twigs. Since virtually every branch is infested, this option would have to be pursued in stages. If the tree was reinvigorated so branches would regrow, this option might work over time.

Since the adult emerges in late spring and flies in July, attracting predators at those times may help. Overall, prognosis is poor to fair. The tree may have value as a demonstration/training tree, for all the steps required to fight the pest and reinvigorate the tree are applicable to other trees.

The Arboretum director’s previous characterization of the tree as a “time sink” appears to be accurate. In the best case scenario, all the branches with galls will be pruned out, new growth will replace them, and a natural predator for the wasps will move in.

It is recommended that other oak trees nearby be monitored for the appearance of this pest. Though it has overtaken this tree due to its weakness after having been topped, the pest can move to other trees. Control is simpler if the pest is detected early."

Ljack if the galls are on little twigs, yes, get up there and clip em out and the tree will be fine. If all the big branches have em, well, treatment may be a waste. You can search more on the pest; Effective PHC happens only after ID is done.

 

[JeffE]

I work for the Div. of Forestry in Florida, with the state forest entomologist. You could say we specialize in bark beetles, because they're the most destructive pest for southern pine forestry. Old dude pretty much got it right, not leaving much for me to say. But, from what I can see in that picture, with that many pitch tubes the tree is history. A vigorous tree can often survive attempts by a few beetles, but that looks like a mass attack, and in the canopy pic it looks like the needles might be yellowing, which would mean the tree is definitely a goner.

As others have said, Lindane and Dursban were often used, but they're off the market. Currently bifenthrin (Onyx) is available as a preventative measure for high-value uninfested trees. Whether this control is called for depends partly on the species of beetle that are attacking. Southern pine beetles are more able to mass-attack nearby healthy trees, while the more common Ips engraver beetles are unlikely to hit healthy trees.

 

[old dude]

pine beetles

treeseer
You are correct. The safest way to fly is to remove the tree (asap). Last night when putting in my two cents worth I was somwhat rushed and did'nt have time to explore the larger overriding picture of the ill effects of the root removals ect--
Yes I saw the pustules but wish I could have seen them better in order to determine whether or not the air holes had been closed-off as well as the number of pitch tubes reletive to trunk girth as well as how high up the trunk the tubes extend.
If there had been no cutting of the rooots thus pre-disposing this tree to attack----then I would still suggest that a gaurded watch would be a reasonable approach especilly given the impression I have that this tree is dominant in the area with a large store of reserve energy as would normally be indicated by such a large trunk-girth.
Tried to pm you but apparently you have a block on pms'. Please feel free to e-mail me at [email protected]. I see that you are older than me by two years. Would be fun to correspond with another ancient like myself as these younger guys often speak a language I sometimes don't get.
all the best-
Old Dude

 

[treeseer]

treeseer
You are correct. The safest way to fly is to remove the tree (asap).
If there had been no cutting of the rooots thus pre-disposing this tree to attack----then I would still suggest that a gaurded watch would be a reasonable approach

OD I agree but the symptoms of puny pitching tell the story on reserves and action, imo. Big tree may = high reserves, but old tree = low vitality for defenses. You could draw a parallel to old tree dudes...

I saw a mass attack with profuse pitching at the base of a smaller pine in a friend's yard. I pointed it out and he said, nya, we'll see what happens. We did nothing. That was 19 years ago; tree is still there.

btw I wiish you'd change your handle since you're younger than me; what am I , senescent dude? You're only as old as you feel in the tree!

 

[Lumberjack]

Hey guys, sorry it took so long been mighty busy.

Old Dude, the tubes start about 15' up (heavy) and run up at least 45' (that I could see). We could see the speckles from the oak tree 200+' away.

Guy, I will get that book, knowledge is cheap compared to the resulting benifits of a lifetime. If its ok with you I would like to fax him the Sidewalk Strategies paper.

I will call the owner again and let him know that the major opinion here is to get the tree down ASAP, I figured it was coming down, but not that it was critical.

The oak would take forever to trim out the galls, I think I will try and sell radial trenching (as far as the landscape will allow) with a back fill of compost mulch soil compaction looks like it could be an issue in a few years (die back should start any time), better to take care of it now. Also dead wood the tree, and do my best to check for any other needs of the tree such as doing a soil PH test, then researching to figure out what the results mean (learning if fun).

 

[treeseer]

The oak would take forever to trim out the galls,

Do you have a trainee climber you could sic on this chore? Send him/her up with a pair of Felco's and take a couple hours to snip them all.

you can send Sidewalk Strategies to that client (tho it's a little late ).

Sending it to public works people and contractors in your town might do more good.

 

[Lumberjack]

If the galls are all over the twigs around the tree then it will take a long while, plus it needs to be dead wooded. No training climbers either .

So I can freely distribute the sidewalk paper? I know of several people I can send it to, plus incorparate it in mailouts, emails, and faxes.