Pioneer chainsaws

[pioneerguy600]

Bruce have you got your carb set up to run yet?
Pioneerguy600

 

[USAFretired]

Hey fellas ,I like the idea that others are watching Ebay for those Pioneers,I have to pick and choose very carefully,as I have a tight budget USAFretired it seems that you have the bug also.I do not know if I told you fellas but awhile back I seperated the Pioneer 1200 from the BrushKing to clean both of them up.Really neat how the BrushKing hooks up with it's pins fitting in to the clutch of the 1200.
Lawrence

I started out just looking for a saw with a 36" chain to cut a huge oak with, no one seems to rent anything larger than a 20". After finding that first Pioneer on eBay, and hooking up with this site, I find them hard to resist. I got the new piston and rings put in my P42 and she really screams now. I was out of town when the P51 came, so my son opened it up, cleaned it up and put it together and fired it up. Of course he had to call me and let me know how nice it ran and how much more power it has than the P42. I was jealous that he got to run it first. I think I have him hooked on the old saws now also. He likes to start them and just listen to them run. Can't wait 'till he gets his first taste of cutting with one. I just can't believe how much some people pay on eBay for them though, that one I was watching went for $395.00 + shipping. My dad always said "Some people have more money than brains", I think he was right! Did any one ever hear of a pioneer model ES or E5? Some guy has a saw on eBay and said that was on the tag. He took a picture, but it didn't show up well. I looked on Chain saw collectors corner on line and there is nothing listed under Pioneer or Pioneer/Partner saws with that model number. Right now it's cheap because there is no pull starter and he says the flywheel is missing a key.

Joe

 

[propliner]

That saw on Ebay with the missing cover is a Farmsaw. The model number says "FS". It's similar to the P40 series but with a different flywheel, coil, and a starting recoil system identical to the P20 series. It's not as tough a starting sytem and was the weak link in these economy 66cc versions along with the often-faulty blue ignition coil (which is still available). The piston and rings were the same as the 66cc P40 series and they had similar power output. The Farmsaw was orange and the Farmsaw II was Pioneer yellow. Both versions are nice torquey firewood saws.

 

[USAFretired]

That saw on Ebay with the missing cover is a Farmsaw. The model number says "FS". It's similar to the P40 series but with a different flywheel, coil, and a starting recoil system identical to the P20 series. It's not as tough a starting sytem and was the weak link in these economy 66cc versions along with the often-faulty blue ignition coil (which is still available). The piston and rings were the same as the 66cc P40 series and they had similar power output. The Farmsaw was orange and the Farmsaw II was Pioneer yellow. Both versions are nice torquey firewood saws.

Wow, you really know your saws propliner! Thanks for the info.

I got to fire up the P51 I recently purchased and man does it have power compared to the P42. I doubt if I'l ever use my craftsman saws again, except maybe for the light stuff. The pioneers are awesome saws. I think I'll put the 32" bar on the P51 and the 20" bar on the P42.

Any one know a good place to purchase chains for the Pioneers on line? I would like to get another 32" chain.

:greenchainsaw:

 

[RENNIE]

1074

Hi Fellas
New here to this site, but glad I found it. Hope you can help me find "IT".
"IT" being an air filter & air filter cover for my 1074. I have a brand new cylinder, piston & ring set that I want to use to restore the saw with.
I swore I wouldn't run it again til I rebuilt it & would not rebuild it until I found the air filter cover & element. This baby really screams through the wood with "chisel chain" on it. I haven't used it in 12 years now. I miss it.
Rennie

PS I also own: Poulan 2300, Puolan Pro 4000, Stihl 009L & a twin cylinder Echo 650 EVL.

 

[WesternSaw]

Rennie

Hey Rennie are you on smokstak?I am a new member there and thought you might be there as well.You have come to the right place.There is a plethora of experience here and elsewhere on this site.The guy's are fantastic and will have you getting addicted to chainsaws in no time.Pioneers hopefully.Try ebay for some of those parts type in Pioneer chainsaws or Pioneer parts.Also some members sell parts as well.I'll let themselves be known.Welcome to the site and, Enjoy
Lawrence

 

[RENNIE]

Thanks

Thank you Lawrence
I'd love to get this thing up & running again. It still ran pretty decent the last time I started it, but the piston shows a considerable amount of scoring on the exhaust side. When I found the saw it was fairly plugged with carbon & probably is the reason it was orphaned. I'm sure it needs new rubber & a carb job by now, after sitting the last several years. No biggie. I guess I should save the old Cyl. & piston, after reading all the posts here eh??? I'm glad I bought the new cyl. & piston when I did, as it looks like they are pretty hard to come by now.
Oh, btw, I am not familiar with "smokstak". Please elaborate.
Regards

Rennie

 

[RENNIE]

Hi Again All

are the air filter & covers interchangeable on the 1073 & 1074? Also are there any other models that have interchangeable parts?

Thanks
Rennie

 

[USAFretired]

are the air filter & covers interchangeable on the 1073 & 1074? Also are there any other models that have interchangeable parts?

Thanks
Rennie

Rennie-Try www.rottmansales.com, they have IPL's for most of the Pioneer saws. You may be able to compare part numbers from various saws and see if any match. I recently purchased a piston and rings for my P42 from them and am going to order rings for my P51. They had them in stock. I just emailed them with the pioneer part numbers and they replied next day.

 

[USAFretired]

Any of you fellers that own P51's happen to know what the coil gap should be? While I'm asking, how about the fuel/oil mix. I read that it should be 24:1, would 40:1 be O.K or would it cause problems down the line?

Thanks,
Joe

 

[mile9socounty]

Rennie-Try www.rottmansales.com, they have IPL's for most of the Pioneer saws. You may be able to compare part numbers from various saws and see if any match. I recently purchased a piston and rings for my P42 from them and am going to order rings for my P51. They had them in stock. I just emailed them with the pioneer part numbers and they replied next day.

+5 with Rottman's. They had the coil I needed for my P42HP. Only ones that had it too. I cost a little bit. But it was well worth the money spent. Now my P42HP is up and running like a doll. When I get home. I'll have to post up some pictures for yall.

 

[propliner]

Welcome Rennie. The 1073 filter cover will fit but uses a flat-type filter. There is also a rubber surround that goes around the edge underneath and seals against the case. It will not work with the later 1074 molded filters with integral rubber surround.

USAF, the coil gap is about the width of a business card. I slide one in there an then tighten it up. 40:1 mix is fine as long as you use a good modern 2-stroke engine oil. I run Stihl oil mixed with avgas at 40:1 in my Pioneers. Never had a problem.

If using a richer mix, check the piston top occasionally for carbon buildup. Carbon buildup is the enemy with these engines, along with too lean an air-fuel mixture.

 

[RENNIE]

Gap & Fuel

TO PROP & USAF
Yes a business card works well as the thickness is usually between .010 & .018.
The .012 to .018 range works fine in MOST cases. There are a few older points models that require more specific factory recommended gaps, but the afore mentioned works well 95% of the time. The fake (thin clear) plastic credit cards you get with the barrage of offers from American Ex. & others, are a fine air gapper to use in many apps. This includes other air cooled OPE engines as well.
Regarding fuel mixture, 40:1 or 32:1 will work in almost ALL applications, KEEPING THE FOLLOWING in mind. When using 32:1 which I reccomend 90 percent of the time, It is a matter of proper tweaking of the carb. This ratio works best with older saw models that have BOTH H & L adjustments. in this way you can adjust for the right amount of "lean & Flutter" at the high end & get the smooth idle (and most importantly) smooth acceleration without hesitation or stalling on the low adjustment. The reason I recommend 32:1 most is the fact that if a novice adjusts his own carb , the chances are better that he will foul out the spark plug, or plug his "SAM"screen (If still equipped) before he locks it up from to lean operation.
40:1 is easier to deal with on newer carbs that ( No thanks to C.A.R.B. California Air Resources Board) no longer have the High adjustment screw. When you think about it, its funny that C.A.R.B. had a large part in this, in that now its easier to run to rich (more smoke & particulate matter) as opposed to lean. Just my observation. Anyway thanks for the advice & hope to get my 1074 back up in the next few weeks.
Rennie

 

[Bruce Hopf]

Bruce have you got your carb set up to run yet?
Pioneerguy600

Hi Jerry.
I took the Carburetor off the Mac 1-10, and this time I got out my Chain Saw Service Manual, and used it in reference to adjusting the Metering Lever. I had to replace the Bolts that hold down the Carburetor, because the Threads got stripped in for the Mounting of the Carburetor, so I taped them to fit 1/4 inch bolts to secure the Carburetor. Not the First time, and Probably not the last time. I started it up on Sunday, but I really haven't had time to play around with it.
I finally got the Mac 10-10 Automatic that has been in my family for 40 Years, that blew out the Spark Plug, running again. That tool for putting in new Spark Plug Threads is a good tool to have. $54.00 out the door at NAPA.
Since I got it running, I haven't focused on the other two yet. I've been also real busy Skidding Tree Tops out of the Bush that I sold to my Cousin. I just pull them out of the Bush, 3 to 4 Tops at a time with my 1650 Cockshutt, that had been rebuilt 500 hours prior to me buying it in January. The Engine was Bored out to a 1750, approx 80 Horse Power. All I do is just limb ed them in the field, and skid them to the Buildings where they cut them up into fire wood. Then I use my Loader Tractor, and shove the limbs into the Bush, and pile them up in a brush pile for the Cotton Tail Rabbits to get into. They really seem to like the Brush Piles.
I sold 100 Tree Tops to him. Ive got ton out 57 tops so far, and I have to get out 30 for myself, and cut them for a few orders of fire wood I have. As long as Mother Nature works with me, the wood should dry Quick, since the bush was logged in January.
Once the wood is Cut, Split and Piled, it should burn this winter with no problems, that is if we can get a few nice days yet this Fall.
By the way. How is that guy doing, that you took the Stihl Chain Saw too? Last time I asked, you said he was tickled pink with it, and had cut some Fire Wood with it, and that you and some others where going to haul it out for him.

 

[pioneerguy600]

Hi Jerry.
I took the Carburetor off the Mac 1-10, and this time I got out my Chain Saw Service Manual, and used it in reference to adjusting the Metering Lever. I had to replace the Bolts that hold down the Carburetor, because the Threads got stripped in for the Mounting of the Carburetor, so I taped them to fit 1/4 inch bolts to secure the Carburetor. Not the First time, and Probably not the last time. I started it up on Sunday, but I really haven't had time to play around with it.
I finally got the Mac 10-10 Automatic that has been in my family for 40 Years, that blew out the Spark Plug, running again. That tool for putting in new Spark Plug Threads is a good tool to have. $54.00 out the door at NAPA.
Since I got it running, I haven't focused on the other two yet. I've been also real busy Skidding Tree Tops out of the Bush that I sold to my Cousin. I just pull them out of the Bush, 3 to 4 Tops at a time with my 1650 Cockshutt, that had been rebuilt 500 hours prior to me buying it in January. The Engine was Bored out to a 1750, approx 80 Horse Power. All I do is just limb ed them in the field, and skid them to the Buildings where they cut them up into fire wood. Then I use my Loader Tractor, and shove the limbs into the Bush, and pile them up in a brush pile for the Cotton Tail Rabbits to get into. They really seem to like the Brush Piles.
I sold 100 Tree Tops to him. Ive got ton out 57 tops so far, and I have to get out 30 for myself, and cut them for a few orders of fire wood I have. As long as Mother Nature works with me, the wood should dry Quick, since the bush was logged in January.
Once the wood is Cut, Split and Piled, it should burn this winter with no problems, that is if we can get a few nice days yet this Fall.
By the way. How is that guy doing, that you took the Stihl Chain Saw too? Last time I asked, you said he was tickled pink with it, and had cut some Fire Wood with it, and that you and some others where going to haul it out for him.

Those new bolts should hold the carb good an tight and if the carb is assembled correctly the saw should be up and running. It is getting to be the time of year to make working in the woods and the woodpile enjoyable, we have moved out a lot of wood to our customers. It was cut up,split and piled earlier this spring and now is very dry and ready to burn. Was that wood that was piled on the trailer Ash, it looks like the ash we have around here.
Those tops would be quite dry if they were cut in January, at least the parts of them that were up off the ground.
We delivered another tandem load of yellow birch to to my friend last night and that makes a total of 6 cords for him for this winters burning. He has cut 6-7 cords of wood himself and between us we got 4-5 cords out to his place in 8' foot lengths where he cuts it up , he can borrow a splitter from time to time and has most of it split up currently. The little 260 works so good for him,starts easy and runs without a hitch every time out and its light in weight but quite powerful and cuts rapidly in the 6"-12" wood he is cutting.
I am still building saws and have done 3 of the Stihl 044`s and 440`s and two more Sachs Dolmar 116 si saws. I picked up a 026 that needs a muffler and air filter and three Jonsered saws that need pistons so they will be winter project saws,I may have to start selling some of them off. LOL.
PIONEERGUY600

 

[WesternSaw]

Pioneer Gaskets

Hi fellas
Just wanting to know if I can make my own gaskets for Pioneer chainsaws.What do I have to take into consideration? I am thinking of these points, making exact duplicate, material type,material thickness,temperature rating.Have I missed something?Or can I not do this?If so, where do I look for the material Auto Supply dealers?
Thanks
Lawrence
Wana be Pioneer Guru! Ha ha!

 

[RENNIE]

gaskets

Pete
You can make your own gaskets. You should try to match the material at your local auto supply house. On any non fuel related gaskets I make, I always use
K&W Coppercoat. The stuff is amazing. I have even used it to refurb head gaskets, when I could not find a replacement. I have 4 cycle eq. in the field running 10 years on reused head gaskets using "Coppercoat".
OK I think I made my point about Coppercoat.
Care should be used when cutting gaskets (especially those used around the fuel and/or intake systems. You want nice clean cuts & holes, as you dont want to get particles or gasket material in your fuel system or inside your crankcase or upper cylinder.
Opps time to go home . I will give you some more pointers tomorrow.
Rennie
P.S. I will also share a few techniques I used just this last weekend.

 

[Bruce Hopf]

Hi Lawrence.
For Gaskets for Gas and Oil, I went to my local NAPA Dealer, and got some Gasket Material from Victor Reinz JV127, 3157. It's almost like a Rubber Coated Paper. Bruce.

 

[pioneerguy600]

Hi fellas
Just wanting to know if I can make my own gaskets for Pioneer chainsaws.What do I have to take into consideration? I am thinking of these points, making exact duplicate, material type,material thickness,temperature rating.Have I missed something?Or can I not do this?If so, where do I look for the material Auto Supply dealers?
Thanks
Lawrence
Wana be Pioneer Guru! Ha ha!

Hey Lawrence,you can make all the gaskets for all applications in the chainsaws but it takes gasket materials that are suitable for each type of application. I get my materials from an engine rebuilding company here and I tell them what I want to use the material for and they suggest what type would be the best for the application. I either take them a piece of the original gasket or measure the thickness and tell them where it is used and they can make suggestions as to a good material for the application. I buy the gasket materials in rolls or by the foot and have plenty on hand ahead of time for all applications.
Next you will need tools to cut the gaskets with, scissors work well and I use the type used in hospitals for surgical procedures as they are the correct shape to cut curvatures easily. A hollow punch set and an eyelet punch setup work well to punch out bolt holes, oil passages etc. An exacto knife and a box cutter snap blade knife come in real handy, also a couple of small sharp wood chisels can be used for some inside corner cuts.
To get the shapes for the gaskets sometimes the old or original gasket can be traced on the new gasket materials and cut out, sometimes you will have to trace out the shape from the part its self. If you can only trace one side then leave enough material on the opposite side to cover the areas necessary then trim away at it a little at a time until a suitable gasket is made, I often punch the bolt holes and use bolts through the holes to position it to check for fit before final trimming. For some really difficult gaskets that are not always accessible for complete tracing on the gasket material I use a thin tracing type of paper and place it over the part where the gasket is required and take a lead pencil and rub the leaded portion over the paper lightly on the raised area the gasket will be placed on and it will leave the desired shape on the paper,punch out the bolt holes as they show up and insert bolts or pins and that will help hold the paper in place while the penciling continues. Once you get the shape mapped out cut the paper tracing out to the proper shape and then it can be placed on the gasket material and taped down in spots to keep it in place,trace out the shape and mark the holes,remove the tracing paper cutout and punch the bolt holes in the gasket material. Place it on the part it will be used on and check to see if the bolt holes etc line up correctly, adjust a little if necessary and if all is good cut out the gasket leaving it a little bigger outside the lines,it can be trimmed down and adjusted before final assembly. After 45 years of practice it gets a little easier but you have to start somewhere and you will improve every time you cut one.
Pioneerguy600

 

[pioneerguy600]

Hi Lawrence.
For Gaskets for Gas and Oil, I went to my local NAPA Dealer, and got some Gasket Material from Victor Reinz JV127, 3157. It's almost like a Rubber Coated Paper. Bruce.

Victor makes a lot of gasket materials that come in handy for many different applications,just ask the supplier and they can match you up with materials for all applications, fuel ,pressure, compression,base gaskets and crankcase halves all can be made by hand from the right material, just try to match the thickness as closely as possible. If it is out a couple of thousandths it will not make a huge difference and still give many years of service.
Pioneerguy600