Pioneer chainsaws

[Roy M]

Lawrence, I would not be at all surprised if IEL people went to PM after production was moved to Peterborough. Both companies were based here in Vancouver.
I have met some former IEL and PM people, they have interesting stories. One gentleman went to IEL after school to pack saws for shipment. Another of Japanese descent was a quality assurance manager at PM. This was unusual for the period as anti Japanese sentiment ran high for many years after the war.

 

[pioneerguy600]

Okay I'll toss this one up in the air.It contains Pioneer and Power Machinery saws.I will post in the thread on the PM270 saw thread as well.I think we as a whole do not want this thread to be anything but PIONEER .Only putting it here for now so that you Gurus with the endless information might have some information on the, WHY OF THIS.As I am taking the PM270 apart something struck me.DUH!Wake up Lawrence.The parts to the 270 look like the IEL's.I remember reading something from here I think that mentioned the engineers from one company went to the other when one closed.Can you fellas set me straight
Thanks Lawrence

Lawrence;
As you already know the IEL chainsaw company was manufacturing saws in Vancouver up until the Outboard Marine Corp bought them out around 1957-58 when they were nearly bankrupt from the effects of the 2 nd. World War. When IEL was bought out and moved to Perteborough, Ontario where they started making the 600 series saws, many of the engineers and staff did not want to move so they went over to work for Power Machinery. Once there they took the model RA they had been producing and worked up the model PM 270 which is a 5.8 cu. in. saw and began production in 1961. The early ones were painted yellow body with a dark blue top cover, they were trying to attract more Canadian customers and sent a contingent of sales staff to central Canada to drum up business and while in Quebec it is rumored that they hit upon the idea of painting some saws white with red top its also rumored that the spelling of the name was modified to fit in with the sales in Quebec where a lot of logging was being carried out at the time and they were trying to make inroads into the industry and increase sales of their new saws.
Hence there is similarities between the IEL`s, Pioneers and the PM 270 saws, there is also some scuttlebutt that the new staff at Pioneer kept in touch with their old friends back home in Vancouver and some ideas got shared, wink, wink, over the first couple of years after Pioneer bought and moved the production of IEL. Not all of this can be proven but it was generally known between insiders and its one topic that I have discussed with the old Pioneer dealers and sales staff that I knew through the years and they generally concur with this line of thought. I bet Holmentree will have some input on this subject also.
Pioneerguy600

 

[pioneerguy600]

Do you have a picture of the tool? I was going to take a flat piece and have the model shop guys at work bore press fit holes for pins but maybe yours is a more simple solution that I can do at home.

Not currently but is very simple to make if you have a welder, either stick or mig, find a socket that matches the diameter of the clutch carrier and leaves room for the pins or small flats to be welded on to the sides of the socket. May not be real pretty but has worked well for me.
Pioneerguy600

 

[briantutt]

Not currently but is very simple to make if you have a welder, either stick or mig, find a socket that matches the diameter of the clutch carrier and leaves room for the pins or small flats to be welded on to the sides of the socket. May not be real pretty but has worked well for me.
Pioneerguy600

Got it, great idea. Thank you

 

[pioneerguy600]

A ways back we were discussing what can be done to the old stock airfilter on the model RA so I will show what I explained but at the time had no pict for, made this improvment for the currenr project RA but use it on my other ones also. The stock airfilter is just fine brass wire mesh wound over a coarse wire mesh frame and lets in fine dust that damages the internals. This is one easy improvement made from a foam sheet that is sold by Brigs and Stratton for airfilter applications.

original filter

cut a strip of foam and wrap around the original filter, I seal the ends with Permatex blue rtv silicone and wrap a strip of masking tape around the whole diameter to hold it together until the rtv sets

 

[crane]

RA Restore

Jerry,

The wait for your pics of that RA restore were worth it!! :jawdrop:

A beautiful job on a beautiful saw. I'm glad that this thread has kept going, if only for the chance to witness restoration come alive in pictures. Your posts and pictures are in the real spirit of this thread. Sometimes I think the older saws don't get the recognition they deserve on the main board, remember-"you don't know where your going, if you can't remember where you've been".

THANK YOU


Drew

 

[pioneerguy600]

The original fuel filter in the tank was little more than a weighted fuel pickup as it was also a fine brass wire mesh strainer really. The little white felt in the middle of the fuel bowl is the actual filter and there is a fine mesh screen in the bottom of the carb above the fuel inlet cover.

 

[pioneerguy600]

Jerry,

The wait for your pics of that RA restore were worth it!! :jawdrop:

A beautiful job on a beautiful saw. I'm glad that this thread has kept going, if only for the chance to witness restoration come alive in pictures. Your posts and pictures are in the real spirit of this thread. Sometimes I think the older saws don't get the recognition they deserve on the main board, remember-"you don't know where your going, if you can't remember where you've been".

THANK YOU


Drew

The older saws are not really for everyday working with tools so they are a sideline here on AS and that`s ok, I don`t work my vintage saws on a daily basis but have fond memories of them from days gone by when I did use them for work. I like to see some of them restored and some kept in user or runner condition to have fun with when time and occasion allows. I teach and show the younger generations about the early saws and their progression over the years and some really take interest in what I say and show them. Otherwise they would never have seen or get to handle and hear history of these old saws and the part of progress they represent in our opening up of this country and for the better or worse the progress of our world from chopping trees with axe and hand powered saws to the early chainsaws up to modern chainsaws. It does not stop there either as I show and teach/ talk about the new generation of woods machinery we use today to harvest wood.
Pioneerguy600

 

[crane]

The older saws are not really for everyday working with tools so they are a sideline here on AS and that`s ok, I don`t work my vintage saws on a daily basis but have fond memories of them from days gone by when I did use them for work. I like to see some of them restored and some kept in user or runner condition to have fun with when time and occasion allows. I teach and show the younger generations about the early saws and their progression over the years and some really take interest in what I say and show them. Otherwise the they would never have seen or get to handle and hear history of these old saws and the part of progress they represent in our opening up of this country and for the better or worse the progress of our world from chopping trees with axe and hand powered saws to the early chainsaws up to modern chainsaws. It does not stop there either as I show and teach/ talk about the new generation of woods machinery we use today to harvest wood.
Pioneerguy600

+1

 

[WesternSaw]

History Lesson

Thanks Jerry for the great history lesson that you gave.I'll keep that item.RoyM Thanks to you for your contribution as well.
Lawrence

 

[pioneerguy600]

Thanks Jerry for the great history lesson that you gave.I'll keep that item.RoyM Thanks to you for your contribution as well.
Lawrence

All the best with your PM 270 by the way and you are welcome to any info that I have on any make of chainsaw.
Pioneerguy600

 

[texx]

anyone got anything on the old NU-17 that i just got , exploded views parts list type stuff , ( primer assembly )
or some stuff on the old lightning i am getting , it needs a top cover too the one thats on it is plastic and in a bad way
going to a small country town swap meet on sunday who knows what i will treasure i will find there

 

[porky616]

hey texx in the box there was a small round spacer floating around, it goes in between the back cover and the saw body on the one bolt that holds it on.

 

[texx]

ok thanks for that mate .
dont know if i found that or not i will have another look still have the box and all the packing so it will be there.
have not had time to play with it yet just kind of loosely put it together might get some time tomorrow after the dentist has finished yanking me around gettin a few pulled tomorrow looking forward to that ,
told by the doc that my neck needs some work doing to it but i rekon when the dentist is done he might have it pulled back into shape might save me going to the bone cracker .
anyone want a dentist appointment they can have mine if they like

 

[WesternSaw]

NU17 Texx

Hello Down Under Texx
I'll be dammed a place called Texas Austrailia.I would not think our American friends would part with that name.Texx I have an IPL for that model.Pm me your email and I will scan and send it on it's way.It may take a couple days though.I have to scan something for another member as well
Lawrence

 

[tallfarmboy]

I personally would not part it out as it is not hard to get a good one up and running if you can do the work yourself. The NOVA II module will run that saw if you really need it but most times just cleaning and setting the points will restore spark on the Pioneers. The point contacts must be clean and shiny to work correctly , set them at 0.022 and you should have spark if there is no other problems. Did you get any info from Lawrence? I read his post where he made an offer and just let it ride, I figured he would give you all the info he could on how to remove the flywheel and check all the ignition parts. If you need more info just ask and some of us will certainly help but not all of us are on every evening so some times it may seem like a long while before you get an answer.
Pioneerguy600

Well, I got the flywheel off today and sanded on the points for awhile. Put the flywheel back on and checked for spark and nothing. I disconnected the kill switch just to make sure that wasn't the problem, still no spark.
What should be my next plan of action? Any source for points OR condenser for this saw?? I'm just afraid that the coil has a short in it.
Should I just get one of the Nova Electronic modules ordered? Or should I give the points another shot tomorrow. I am a relatively patient person, but I was hoping to get spark before I started working on fuel/carb issues.

Looking for guidance on this old girl...

Thank you in advance,
TFB

 

[crane]

Gap set at .022? Are the points really corroded? Did you trace the wires back to the ignition/coil and see if they were cracked or broken? how are you checking for spark-tester or grounding the plug? Did you try a new plug and is it gapped correctly?

Just making sure all your bases are covered before you give up on the original and order something new.

Drew

 

[tallfarmboy]

The points seemed to be in very good condition, very little corrosion anywhere on the saw and the points cover was in perfect condition and sealing well also. Gapped at .022, I have NOT checked the wiring from condenser/points to coil. I will probably do that tomorrow. I have been checking for spark with both methods... spark tester AND grounding the plug. I will find another good plug tomorrow as well.
Thank you for the quick response.
TFB

 

[crane]

The points seemed to be in very good condition, very little corrosion anywhere on the saw and the points cover was in perfect condition and sealing well also. Gapped at .022, I have NOT checked the wiring from condenser/points to coil. I will probably do that tomorrow. I have been checking for spark with both methods... spark tester AND grounding the plug. I will find another good plug tomorrow as well.
Thank you for the quick response.
TFB

Mark Heimann (big Mcculloch collector) posted somewhere or the mainborad how to test a coil. I will try to find it, and post a link here. You could try a search. It was a recent post if I remember correctly. Wish I could be of more help.

Drew

Here is the link: http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=75199&highlight=coil

 

[pioneerguy600]

The points seemed to be in very good condition, very little corrosion anywhere on the saw and the points cover was in perfect condition and sealing well also. Gapped at .022, I have NOT checked the wiring from condenser/points to coil. I will probably do that tomorrow. I have been checking for spark with both methods... spark tester AND grounding the plug. I will find another good plug tomorrow as well.
Thank you for the quick response.
TFB

Get all parts checked out and then make a move to whatever makes the most sense to your particular situation. On the NU 17 rebuild the old coil was cracked and ruined, I rebuilt it by changing out the coil off the E frame and replacing the coil with one from a 600 series saw. Its not quite a direct swap but can be done with a little resizing of the laminated E frame.
Pioneerguy600