huck01955
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Thank you Jerry
Pioneer chainsaws
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huck01955
ArboristSite Guru
--------- Pioneer 3071 repair of the ignition system ---------
Hi All. I picked up this pioneer 3071 a while back. and it was running well. THEN, one day it wouldn't start and had no spark.
The 3071 was pioneers first electronic ignition model. and uses a wico-prestolite system. and parts for it seem to be scarce.
After trying a new plug. I tested the output coil. The primary metered at 0.5 ohms and the secondary was just over 1K.
when I dabbed 12v across the primary I could get a small spark from it. Next to test was the pickup-unit near the flywheel.
Putting a meter on the output of this gave me pulses, but they wearn't enough to drive the output coil. I took a dremel to
the thing and found that although the coils and diodes were intact. The transistor buried inside the unit was dead.
Rather than replace it and re-seal it all in resin, I thought it would be a better plan to just replace the whole thing.
After spending a week looking for some original Wico ignition parts, I took the advice of some folks here and converted
the 3071 to use a more modern, and obtainable ingnition system. a search of an online-auction site found a similar shaped
unit, that was advertised as a non-original ignition coil to fit the following.....
Husqvarna 340, 345 346, 350, 351, 353, 357, 359, 362 365, 371, 372, 385 & 390
Jonsered 2140, 2145, 2149 2150, 2152, 2063, 2065, 2165, 2071, 2171 and 2186
So I bought one (13 UKP) and it arrived two days later. Picture"2" below shows the replacement unit and the original.
with the original unit. the trigger coil sits under the mounting-hole nearest the flywheel. and the capacitor-charge coil is
above the mounting hole. the piston being at TDC when the gap between the magnets is in line with the mounting post / hole.
see picture "TDC" below.
First, I took a look at the way the replacement coil fitted in a Husqvarna 340 and compared it to the way it would fit in the 3071.
a forum member sent me a picture of a very similar unit on another pioneer, so out came the dremel. The hole / slot between
the coils of the new unit needed to be made a little longer to allow the unit to fit closet to the flywheel, and also the centre
laminated pole had to be shortened by about 1/16 of an inch. You'll know it right when all three of the unit's iron poles sit
snug against the magnets on the flywheel. and you can see the whole of the hole in the centre pole (almost poetry this is....).
getting one of the original screws in wasn't going to happen, so I reduced the diameter of the head on the screw that fits
nearest the flywheel so it didn't sit against the plastic part of the new pickup-unit. see picture"4" below. OR. if you have a smaller
head screw or a cheese-head screw, that may work for you..
I fitted the unit temporarily and spaced it a gnats away from the flywheel magnets. then measured and made a mounting plate
for the other fixing hole see picture"3". I had some thin galvanized steel plate in the workshop junk-pile, so I just made a simple
bracket to take the coil's other hole to the 3071's other fixing point. see picture"5" below.
Used a machine-screw, washers and a ny-lock nut to attach the coil to the bracket. along with the clip for the HT cable. and a
shorter allen screw for the bracket to fixing-point. Then after extending the HT lead so it would run through the original route
(via the carb-housing). and connecting-up the kill-switch it was all done... see last 2 pictures"7 and 8".
of the complete/wired pickup / coil and the HT cable coming out of the original cover on the right
hand side... I used plenty of tape and heat shrink sleeving where the HT cable runs through the
casings, just to make sure it all stayed well insulated.
The whole repair took me a couple of hours. and the saw runs well... Although I think it now could do with a fuel-filter / carb-rebuild, and a new chain.
Hi All. I picked up this pioneer 3071 a while back. and it was running well. THEN, one day it wouldn't start and had no spark.
The 3071 was pioneers first electronic ignition model. and uses a wico-prestolite system. and parts for it seem to be scarce.
After trying a new plug. I tested the output coil. The primary metered at 0.5 ohms and the secondary was just over 1K.
when I dabbed 12v across the primary I could get a small spark from it. Next to test was the pickup-unit near the flywheel.
Putting a meter on the output of this gave me pulses, but they wearn't enough to drive the output coil. I took a dremel to
the thing and found that although the coils and diodes were intact. The transistor buried inside the unit was dead.
Rather than replace it and re-seal it all in resin, I thought it would be a better plan to just replace the whole thing.
After spending a week looking for some original Wico ignition parts, I took the advice of some folks here and converted
the 3071 to use a more modern, and obtainable ingnition system. a search of an online-auction site found a similar shaped
unit, that was advertised as a non-original ignition coil to fit the following.....
Husqvarna 340, 345 346, 350, 351, 353, 357, 359, 362 365, 371, 372, 385 & 390
Jonsered 2140, 2145, 2149 2150, 2152, 2063, 2065, 2165, 2071, 2171 and 2186
So I bought one (13 UKP) and it arrived two days later. Picture"2" below shows the replacement unit and the original.
with the original unit. the trigger coil sits under the mounting-hole nearest the flywheel. and the capacitor-charge coil is
above the mounting hole. the piston being at TDC when the gap between the magnets is in line with the mounting post / hole.
see picture "TDC" below.
First, I took a look at the way the replacement coil fitted in a Husqvarna 340 and compared it to the way it would fit in the 3071.
a forum member sent me a picture of a very similar unit on another pioneer, so out came the dremel. The hole / slot between
the coils of the new unit needed to be made a little longer to allow the unit to fit closet to the flywheel, and also the centre
laminated pole had to be shortened by about 1/16 of an inch. You'll know it right when all three of the unit's iron poles sit
snug against the magnets on the flywheel. and you can see the whole of the hole in the centre pole (almost poetry this is....).
getting one of the original screws in wasn't going to happen, so I reduced the diameter of the head on the screw that fits
nearest the flywheel so it didn't sit against the plastic part of the new pickup-unit. see picture"4" below. OR. if you have a smaller
head screw or a cheese-head screw, that may work for you..
I fitted the unit temporarily and spaced it a gnats away from the flywheel magnets. then measured and made a mounting plate
for the other fixing hole see picture"3". I had some thin galvanized steel plate in the workshop junk-pile, so I just made a simple
bracket to take the coil's other hole to the 3071's other fixing point. see picture"5" below.
Used a machine-screw, washers and a ny-lock nut to attach the coil to the bracket. along with the clip for the HT cable. and a
shorter allen screw for the bracket to fixing-point. Then after extending the HT lead so it would run through the original route
(via the carb-housing). and connecting-up the kill-switch it was all done... see last 2 pictures"7 and 8".
of the complete/wired pickup / coil and the HT cable coming out of the original cover on the right
hand side... I used plenty of tape and heat shrink sleeving where the HT cable runs through the
casings, just to make sure it all stayed well insulated.
The whole repair took me a couple of hours. and the saw runs well... Although I think it now could do with a fuel-filter / carb-rebuild, and a new chain.
Attachments
Some coils do indeeed look similar. BUT, there are many types. Most new coils seem to be one-piece units. with just HT-lead and kill-switch. (this is the type now fitted to my pioneer 3071). It looked similar to the original but that was a 2-coil electronic unit with low-voltage out that needed an external condenser and output-coil to fire the plug. Some older machines also use a contact-breaker. so I think as long as you can get a coil that not only fits, but that will fit in a place that produces a spart at the correct time, you're onto a winner. The problem with this 3071 and many other saws it the mounting bolt positions. and finding a coil that sits around that mounting-point nearest the flywheel.
Not a difficult job to change out seals, CR # 6661 for the clutch side and CR #6630 for the flywheel side. To split the crankcase everything needs to be pulled from the flywheel side, stator plate and all.A puller can be attached to the screw holes present and the pusher bolt contacting the end of the crank tightened to pull the side plate out of the crankcase.
Thanks a lot Jerry for those Seal numbers. l could probably get them locally around here. They will help me get going here and l am sure more parts are going to be needed.
Thx
Brian
Chicago Rawhide numbers are easily cross referenced with other manufacturers , I get a lot of seals and bearings from Motion Bearing.
My next project after I finish the 11-60 I'm working on There's a couple of fins missing from the 3200 starter housing. Other than that, it's OK. Fires on prime. Looking forward to trying out this 77cc version. The paint seems complete (....ly gone per 1970's Pioneers). Comp is good, P&C look great. Looking forward to it. Not sure if the primer is intact or not. I'm thinking not.
I think I will leave the paint as is.
I think I will leave the paint as is.
ML12
ArboristSite Guru
I deleted the base gasket in mine, new cabers, and opened up the 'baffle' in the muffler. it runs great its a really nice strong saw and its deceptively compact. I like the lines of this family of pioneers. it normally wears a 24" B&C but I have a nice 28" I think I want to try.
If the primer is gone just take a primer bulb with the 2 hole flange and use that. the holes line up perfect. It has (or mine does anyways) a governed carb that has to be set while the saw is cutting wood (you need 3 hands or a helper). Also watch out for the crank seals. I couldn't find a direct cross so I machined a carrier to fit in the housing and then loctited it in there, then used a standard sized seal. If you find a modern equivalent I'd like to know.
Thanks for the tips. I'm replacing the primer on the 11-60 with a choke carb and the fittings from an 1100 Holiday. I'l check on the crank seals when I work on it to see if I can find a direct replacement. Yours looks very nice.
This is a 1110 that I had at one time. I had a 1200 parts saw and used the carb and choke setup on it since I had the parts already.
I just had to plug off the primer line going to the crankcase and it ran out pretty good. I wonder who thought a 8 tooth sprocket was a good idea on it though, it struggled along in hardwood.
I did just acquire a NOS P/C for the 1200 and some others like this one that I don't figure to have a use for so if one of you Pioneer guys need it it would be available.
I have a 28" bar on my 3270SC and its not even a challenge for that saw here in midwest hardwoods. It should really destroy the softwoods you have by you.
I chuckle to myself when I think about the PO that had my 3270SC. He bought and used it for an orchard saw in the early 70's. It rode around on his tractor and he pruned trees and cut fencing. He ordered it with a 16".
I had a heck of a time tuning it as it has the Tilly semi-fixed H. It doesn't even clean up under load with the short bar until the H is nearing closed. Ballsy saw.
I though someone (Tim?) had found a replacement seal for the 427656? I know I would like to swap mine out.
I had a heck of a time tuning it as it has the Tilly semi-fixed H. It doesn't even clean up under load with the short bar until the H is nearing closed. Ballsy saw.
I though someone (Tim?) had found a replacement seal for the 427656? I know I would like to swap mine out.
interested in what youre thinkin $$$ on that.
Sounds about right on that carb. Better than the Mac SP125 fixed high speed. Stupid to put a non-adjustable carb on a big saw like that.
Far as the seals, when I did my 1520, 1560, 3270 I had several size seals laying around so I didn't have to measure and match.
That said, 428746 crosses to 6139 and 427656 might be 6541. I seem to recall 2 different part number seals being the same size. I know if you pull the seal, you'll be able to match it. Pioneer used standard stuff.
I always like the looks of the 3200s with a full wrap chrome handlebar.
Chris B.
On the 600 series Saws was their a Gasket used as a replacement to the sealant that was applied to the Case Fan housing. l do not see a Part # in the ipl,s but have seen the Gasket used on some saws. l was wondering if those saws were in for previous service and a update bulletin was created and paper gasket installed.
Anybody come across this and is Paper gasket best to use on a rebuild?
Anybody come across this and is Paper gasket best to use on a rebuild?
I dug out a 427656 seal from my stash and measured it up. Came up with 1.125 OD and .566 ID which crosses to a 5662 seal double lip or 5652 single lip. They're both .050 wider but those Pioneer cases have plenty of room.
FYI, I've never pulled a double lip seal out of an old Pioneer. People who insist saws can only use double-lip seals obviously have never pulled one down.
425076 is CR6541
425077 is CR6582
These two are used on all the 600 series and the J series big boys, if you have one of those.
Chris B.
FYI, I've never pulled a double lip seal out of an old Pioneer. People who insist saws can only use double-lip seals obviously have never pulled one down.
425076 is CR6541
425077 is CR6582
These two are used on all the 600 series and the J series big boys, if you have one of those.
Chris B.
Hello all! Just want to show off this Pioneer I just got. I drained all fluids and put fresh mix in. It tried to run but seemed sluggish. I then pulled spark plug and finger tested compression. ( my finger test works for me) Seems low. Also, I almost forgot, I got a parts manual that came with it. A local garage used to sell them. So i am going to contact them tomorrow to see if they have a hidden supply.
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