Pioneer chainsaws

[edju1958]

Hello fellow Pioneer enthusiasts,I just bought a Farmsaw & got it delivered today.I tried to get it running,but it just sputtered a bunch.I think I'll end up pulling the carb for a rebuild.It has good spark,so no problem there.I do have a couple questions though.1) Does the Farmsaw have a decomp valve?2) Does the Farmsaw have bar plates? 3)Is the muffler supposed to have a baffle in it? I thought I saw just about everything done to a saw till today.Apparently the muffler bolts vibrated loose & the PO replaced one of them with a carriage bolt,Lol.The saw is in overall fairly good shape & the clutch cover & the recoil/starter has been replaced with parts from a P41.Just about all the paint is gone from both,so it wouldn't take much to get a fizz can & color it orange.Also,it came with no bar or chain.What is the bar mount pattern for the saw?

 

[Lou]

@ edju1958;
1) Does the Farmsaw have a decomp valve?
I think all Pioneers have/had an automatic decomp valve, my FarmSaw does. The stock takeup spool/starter is plastic. Trying to start without the decomp valve will quickly render it worthless!
2) Does the Farmsaw have bar plates?
If you mean the thin metal pieces on each side of the bar, mine has one on each side .
3)Is the muffler supposed to have a baffle in it?
The forest service (Cloudcroft NM) required a spark arrester, my stock saw passed. I think yes.

Also, it came with no bar or chain. What is the bar mount pattern for the saw?
http://www.acresinternet.com/cscc.n...373683b7e144c81188256b00001f8ba0?OpenDocument (Chainsaw collectors corner, Pioneer FarmSaw) Most have a bar pattern, sorry this one is not listed.
I can tell you Pioneer claimed the FarmSaw could handle up to a 28-inch bar. Mine does well with both 20 (The stock bar was 18 inches, I told the shop where I bought the saw new (1979 or 1980) I required a 20-inch bar and no chain break. The bar they provided was a Pioneer 474811 20-058 3/8 J9 (extremely small text - made in Canada) and 24 inch (Oregon 240---D196 below that 8796 HT, I purchased this bar new through a local saw shop many years after I bought the saw and they may have modified the oilers) bars,

 

[edju1958]

1) Does the Farmsaw have a decomp valve?
I think all Pioneers have/had an automatic decomp valve, my FarmSaw does.
2) Does the Farmsaw have bar plates?
If you mean the thin metal pieces on each side of the bar, mine has one on each side .
3)Is the muffler supposed to have a baffle in it?
The forest service (Cloudcroft NM) required a spark arrester, my stock saw passed. I think yes.

Also, it came with no bar or chain. What is the bar mount pattern for the saw?
http://www.acresinternet.com/cscc.n...373683b7e144c81188256b00001f8ba0?OpenDocument (Chainsaw collectors corner, Pioneer FarmSaw)
Most have a bar pattern, sorry this one is not listed. I can tell you Pioneer claimed the FarmSaw could handle up to a 28-inch bar. Mine does well with both 20 (The stock bar was 18 inches, I told the shop where I bought the saw new (1979 or 1980) I required a 20-inch bar and no chain break. The bar they provided was a Pioneer 474811 20-058 3/8 J9 (extremely small text - made in Canada) and 24 inch (Oregon 240---0196 below that 8796 HT, I purchased this bar new through a local saw shop many years after I bought the saw and they may have modified the oilers) bars,

Thanks,you've answered 3 out of 4 questions for me.The one about the muffler having a baffle you didn't answer.A spark arrestor is totally different than a baffle..The bar mount pattern as I understand it is an Oregon D096 or D196.Thanks again,you've been very helpful!

 

[89HD]

Thanks,you've answered 3 out of 4 questions for me.The one about the muffler having a baffle you didn't answer.A spark arrestor is totally different than a baffle..The bar mount pattern as I understand it is an Oregon D096 or D196.Thanks again,you've been very helpful!

 

[Beavers]

Here are some pics of original Farmsaw starter assy. you can see the setup it has a decompresson valve which screws into cyl. The str pinion gear is a weak link and l would advise not to use without a working decomp valve.
The flat baffle plate in the muffler has the spark arrester screen similar to the P41 muffler but the size is not the same , different part #'s
The Farmsaw 11 has a oval muffler with spark arrester on it.
You mention you had a P41 str on your Farmsaw which is completely different set up , their fore your flywheel has been switched?, What cyl is on the saw?

 

[edju1958]

Now I'm beginning to wonder if that's the reason it won't start?It just sputters.The Farmsaw has the electronic module & if they switched flywheels it won't work with a points flywheel as far as I know (maybe I'm wrong?).I pulled the carb & found the metering lever set too high.I'll have to pull the starter off to see what they did.I can get some pics here too so you all can see what's going on.

 

[edju1958]

After looking over the recoil I saw bits of orange paint on it,so the recoil isn't from a P41 as the seller had said.The clutch cover might be though.Here's a pic of the innards of my Farmsaw.

 

[pioneerguy600]

After looking over the recoil I saw bits of orange paint on it,so the recoil isn't from a P41 as the seller had said.The clutch cover might be though.Here's a pic of the innards of my Farmsaw.

Well, that certainly is not a ,Farmsaw flywheel. Top frame is not from a Farmsaw so its a ,frankensaw. Might just have to replace all the running parts with original Farmsaw pieces to get a runner or keep on swapping parts around, just may get a runner out of it. Pic is so blurry to me that I cannot see the rest of the details.

 

[xl130]

Looks like possibly a P41 flywheel. If it is it will probably not work with the prestolite coil. Also looks like a P40 or P41 top air cover/handle assembly. Looks green?

 

[edju1958]

After getting feedback from you guys I think I'll just return the saw.I'd be sticking good money after bad by trying to buy parts for this thing & then there's no guarantee it'd ever run.I'd need a flywheel & a recoil to start & I didn't see the recoil for sale on Feebay.I could probably wait till the cows come home.

 

[pioneerguy600]

After getting feedback from you guys I think I'll just return the saw.I'd be sticking good money after bad by trying to buy parts for this thing & then there's no guarantee it'd ever run.I'd need a flywheel & a recoil to start & I didn't see the recoil for sale on Feebay.I could probably wait till the cows come home.

Hope you did not pay much for that frankensaw and if you can get your money back I would agree its best to do so.

 

[edju1958]

I can get my money back with eBay's money back guarantee for 30 days after the purchase,but I've had a member here contact me about a good running Farmsaw & another parts saw.It might be possible to have 2 good running Farmsaws after all is said & done.Time will tell.

 

[Lou]

I cannot speak for what you are bidding on but... My FarmSaw did everything I ever asked her to do!!! New Mexico was my first fireplace. I did all of my cutting in the National Forest at about 8000 feet elevation (she was purchased at and lived at 4100 feet). My 20-inch bar out cut and sold quite a few Pioneer saws to other brand saw users (she always had a sharp chain and was cleaned after each outing). She outcut numerous brands with larger engines and bars. She went into storage from 1986 until 1991 when I retired and we moved here. She was problematic twice here. The first was my fault, the starter hung up in brush and I continued to cut (bad idea)! It ate probably half of the starter spirals. I found a replacement starter spool to solve that one. The second time she lost spark. I went to a GTG in Oregon. She was stored on the ground under a tarp. That wonderful Prestolite coil condensed moisture and she lost all spark. It was sometime later I came across the idea (here) of baking the coil (low and slow), that solved that problem too. She's stored on a shelf about 3 feet above the cement floor in my garage and I was happily rewarded not so long ago when I checked her spark and found it still strong. She is now my back-up saw and hasn't run in quite some time. I'm certain if/when I need her she'll once again do whatever I ask.

 

[edju1958]

I haven't given up on this Farmsaw yet.Another member here sent me a PM about the parts I need to get it back to running condition again.I've found that the reason why the saw won't run is because the PO put a flywheel on it from a P41 which is a points saw.The Farmsaw is electronic & the 2 are incompatible.The timing was being thrown all over the place.Another thing I noticed was that the saw has an HS125 carb on it & it originally came with an HS147D.My guess is that the governor was giving the PO some problems & he switched out the carb.The HS125 doesn't have the governor.The only concern I have is if the venturi are the same size on the 125 as thery are on the 147.I'll find out more once I get the parts on the saw & get it fired up.

 

[rocketnorton]

my 41 was 2pc electronic
40 was points

 

[pioneerguy600]

I have been down this rabbit hole before with guys switching out parts on the Farmsaws for parts off different green P series saws. They argued with me that the parts work, more likely they can bolt them on. When I asked to see proof of them actually running said members quickly disappeared. I then asked the other members of the Pioneer thread if they had tried these parts swaps and got a running saw but got no replies. Alternate modules have been found and used in place of the blue modules of death and even an AM company turned out replacements for a while, they were costly but did work satisfactorily.

 

[edju1958]

If I'm not mistaken the blue module that's on the Farmsaw is the same one that was used on the Homelite SXL & XL-12.If this is the case,then the aftermarket module that's sold by Lil Red Barn will work as a replacement.Their cost is $49.95 + shipping.I've bought 3 of these modules & they work well.When I get the saw running I can take the module off the XL-12 & p[ut it on the Farmsaw to see if I'm right about this.

 

[pioneerguy600]

The module is the same but the screw holes are off by a little bit, some have swapped the mounting laminations from the Farmsaw coil/module over to the module off the SXL. Only the Blue ones will work, the black ones reportedly will not. There is enough metal on the SXL laminations that the mounting holes can be filed out to fit the Farmsaw but it gets very close to the edge.

 

[Lou]

I've had my FarmSaw since late 79 or early 80. In NM it was stored about 4 feet off the ground in a shed I constructed. It never failed to spark! We bought this place in 1991 and she's been stored on a shelf about 3 feet off the concrete garage floor. The ONLY time she failed to spark was when she was stored for a couple of days, directly on the ground. That was a simple fix with the low/slow bake described here in previous posts.

 

[xl130]

I guess I’ve been lucky. I’ve never had a bad blue prestolite yet. (knocking on wood)

I have about 10 saws that have that module and have not had one that was bad. A couple times I have baked them back to life and have had no problem since.

Now that I have said that they will all go bad!