Poperty Wood Thinning Question

[forestryworks]

Rodeo-Chediski

 

[slowp]

Thinning from the logging side thoughts.

When we started having commercial thins, back in the early 1980s, nobody wanted to do it. One guy started specializing in it. He had a small, swing yarder. Most of the logging was old growth clearcuts then. He struggled, figured it out, and soon had more work than he could handle.

More guys got into it. Now that's all the logging that is done on the National Forest. Some of the fallers tell me they like to fall in thinnings. It is more of a challenge and they take pride in doing a good job.

The rigging crews do not like thinnings. Thinnings are more work. Sometimes logs have to be unhooked and rehooked to keep from damaging the leave trees.
This happens more when the forester is out in the brush checking stuff.:smile:..They like thinnings on a hot summer day because there is shade.

If you do log your patch, you'll want to get out and keep an eye on things. I call it giving them the stink eye. It works...to a point. As a hooktender said, "We got more eyes than you." It was humor in the woods. :good:

 

[Rick Alger]

I do a fair amount of commercial and pre-commercial thinning in Northern, NH. Here the NRCS pays 75% of the cost up to $150 per acre if it's a pre-commercial project. But if there is merchantable wood to be harvested they won't fund the work.

Low-grade wood is very hard to move profitably in this area. It will rarely pay for the thinning.

The NRCS figures it costs on average $200 / acre for the thinnings they subsidize.

 

[floyd]

I am well aware of the cost of fire suppression thank you very much.

I understand thinning decreases the catastrophic effects of unplanned fires in the woods.

What I do not understand is why everyone feels the need to do it with tax dollars instead of their own money.

 

[ropensaddle]

I am well aware of the cost of fire suppression thank you very much.

I understand thinning decreases the catastrophic effects of unplanned fires in the woods.

What I do not understand is why everyone feels the need to do it with tax dollars instead of their own money.

Maybe most of us don't know what its like to have money! Many middle class have been taxed until there is no money. Tax dollars coming back to them don't sound so bad!

 

[redprospector]

I am well aware of the cost of fire suppression thank you very much.

I understand thinning decreases the catastrophic effects of unplanned fires in the woods.

What I do not understand is why everyone feels the need to do it with tax dollars instead of their own money.

I think it's a "risk asessment". They figure that if they wait for the private land owners to do it on their own it probably won't get done. I don't know about other places but around here owning 160 acres or so dosen't mean you've got any money. A lot of it was "home steaded" over 100 years ago and passed down through the generations. Some of these people are doing all they can to keep the property taxes paid (which are pretty low here), much less come up with $240,000 to have the thinning done. There are some folks with money who come in and buy one of the old home stead's, but most of them don't want to cut any trees.
I think it's one of the very few good & usefull programs that the government has going.

Andy

 

[Gologit]

I think it's a "risk asessment". They figure that if they wait for the private land owners to do it on their own it probably won't get done. I don't know about other places but around here owning 160 acres or so dosen't mean you've got any money. A lot of it was "home steaded" over 100 years ago and passed down through the generations. Some of these people are doing all they can to keep the property taxes paid (which are pretty low here), much less come up with $240,000 to have the thinning done. There are some folks with money who come in and buy one of the old home stead's, but most of them don't want to cut any trees.
I think it's one of the very few good & usefull programs that the government has going.

Andy

Good post. It's the same thing here. People figure that if you own land you're automatically wealthy. I wish that was true. It's not.

Timber prices are down and cattle prices are down, but everything else, including taxes, is up. I can wheel and deal a little on fuel and machinery and other supplies but there's no wiggle room on taxes. You pay them or else.

So...when I run across a program that enables me to improve my timber and lessen the possibility of fire and the government is willing to pay for a large portion of it I'm going to take advantage of it. I'm sure not making any money on it and my out-of-pocket expenses are considerable. I figure it's like getting a tax rebate in the form of a useful and much needed service. The people with land adjoining mine feel the same way.

Your tax money is going somewhere...why not be grateful that at least part of it is doing some good? It's creating employment and fuel sales and machinery sales which in turn create more tax revenue.

And Floyd?....Thanks for your contribution.

 

[redprospector]

And Floyd?....Thanks for your contribution.

Hahahahaha! That was great.

After a rather spirited meeting (inspection) with the State Forestry a couple of months ago, the land owner I'm working for told me I needed to quit jabbing after I made my point. I'm not having much success at quitting, but I'm glad to see I'm not the only one.

Andy

 

[Gologit]

Thanks Andy. But Floyd has a good point and I understand his frustration. I'm not a very political person and I'm not going to start some kind of tax rant here but we all know that there's a lot of wasted money that doesn't produce any decent result.

So when I find something that tax dollars fund that does some real good, not only for me but for landowners in general and the public as well, I'll get on board. No apology for that, either.

I've seen first hand the results of ladder fuel eradication and precommercial thinning in the areas I work in. If somebody can come up with an immediate and cost effective alternative I'd be 100% behind it. But for now we have to work with what we have...and what we know will produce the best results.

And Floyd? If we run across each other, lunch is on me.

 

[redprospector]

Agreed!

And Floyd, I doubt we'll run across each other. But if we do, lunch is on me.

Andy

 

[ropensaddle]

Agreed!

And Floyd, I doubt we'll run across each other. But if we do, lunch is on me.

Andy

Man I am gettin hungry

 

[redprospector]

Man I am gettin hungry

Tombien for you buddy. Hahahaha.

Andy

 

[Gologit]

Man I am gettin hungry

You're too late...we ate the last of the canned smoked salmon that Burvol sent for breakfast. Yesterday.

 

[madhatte]

We have a thinning project going on right now in a badly-overgrown and neglected plantation. When the project began, we thought it was gonna be just an expense. As pulpwood prices have shifted around lately, we've broken even, and even made a bit of a profit. We've also kept the small family operation doing the work in business for way longer than expected. This isn't a handout, this is a profitable operation. Granted, the circumstances are kind of unique, but that doesn't mean we won't be able to do something similar elsewhere.

 

[Double_Diamond]

The NRCS program in our area is a good thing. I know as well as the next guy that the federal government can squander our tax dollars. This program is not one of those programs. It puts the money into the pockets of local people for a service provided that helps prevent costly fires that destroy valuable timber and destroy homes. The timber industry is way down in our area and this program helps a bit to keep some local operations going. The money is spent in the community for hard working individuals, not overseas or to someone looking for a handout.
A lot of individuals want to clean up their property and improve their timber stand but are unable to do it themselves. This grant allows them to do it. I am lucky that I like to work on my property and am physically able to do it. I work hard, pay my taxes, and don’t go looking for handouts. So if the feds want to help me out I am not going to turn them down.

 

[ropensaddle]

You're too late...we ate the last of the canned smoked salmon that Burvol sent for breakfast. Yesterday.

Man alls I got is this on a half shell