Possibly a step towards appeasing both sides?

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Well, look at that piece of paper as a work permit


Some fresh out of college foresters get on ready to change the system. By the time they are in a position to change the system they are the system. Keep It Simple Stupid

I call it getting crushed. Or, being a Dilbert fan, Getting Crushed By The Fist Of Doom. Not many foresters are hired by the Forest Service anymore. They got rid of a whole slough of them, along with engineers in what I call The Timber Purge in the 1990s. That's part of the problem. Then 'ologists were hired in their place. Having been around and struggling to keep a job at that time, one saw and heard the 'ologists proudly saying, "We are scientists." They are now in charge. You won't see many District Rangers who have a Forestry education in the Forest Service anymore.

Anyway, an enthusiastic young forester comes in, and will soon be crushed as he/she finds out that what they learned in college is not the way the FS manages forests. Courts, and the agenda of the enviro industry say what kind of management will be done out here.

Wisconsin? The district there was like going back in time. Timber sales were put up. The Timber Shop had the most employees. The employees worked together to get timber put up for sale. It was a hard working, efficiently run, successful place.

There was one appeal during my brief time there, and the District Ranger--the best I've ever been around, made a decision and appeased the appealers. And, got in trouble for it. He got chewed out by the folks in Milwaukee and DC for daring to make a decision without consulting them.

He was one of the few rangers who left the office on his own, went out with us employees, and could still be on a fire crew. A young guy who was like the old style rangers.

Anyway, because Region 6, Warshington and Oregon were not cutting as much, the Wisconsin Forest had the second highest harvest in the US, and was becoming a target by enviro groups. That ranger left, I think he was crushed, and a new one was hired. I do not know how they are doing now.

I like Madhatte's spirit, but the trouble with organizing the timber industry is, they don't have time. Most loggers are busy working long days. If they don't they may lose their business. I still get angry when I read that the local community is listened to. I guess they mean Portland and Vancouver for us. That is 2 or more hours away from here--120 miles.

By the way, I heard--was it Mike Melcher? The logger mentioned in that article, give a talk at an AOL convention. AOL is the Association of Oregon Loggers. The Forest Service was going the Stewardship route at that time, and I had heard FS expert after expert try to explain Stewardship. I never understood them. He explained the concept beautifully--simple without all the jargon, and the CFL lightbulb in my brain finally got a bit brighter and I had an AHA! moment.

That news article was well written. No mention of "Chopping Down" trees. It actually seemed unbiased. Imagine that!
 
I don't know much about Forestry but I do know the mentality behind the protesters. They will never come to a logical, sensible compromise with the industry because there is nothing logical or sensible about their position.

On another thread somewhere here, I saw a u-tube video of a group of tree-huggers sitting in a circle, beating on drums and bewailing the death of a tree(s). That video tells it all. It is a religion to the enviros. They have rejected the Creator but fill the resultant spiritual void with their worship of nature.

They cannot be reasoned with because for them to accept reason would be to admit their "religion" is false and they are fools.
 
The other thing is equal access to the courts. Needs to be some sort of limitation on that, especially when dealing with very specific occupations.

Also, as someone said here before, the enviros need to pay for the costs of their litigation, whether they win or not. If they don't win, tack on extra fees. After all, it's only fair to the woods workers.

The American public shouldn't have to foot the bill for the specious litigation of the greenies.

Reform is continuously needed, as everything changes.
 
I know what you guys/gals are saying as far as having high ambitions straight out of college and then conforming and becoming the system. The big difference for me is that I will be working in the private sector (already having employment in writing). Additionally, given my background in wood products I really don't foresee my views changing much. Of course nothing in life is 100% certain - highly unlikely though. I was thinking more about attending a variety of the meetings that seem to happen on a weekly basis and perhaps have my voice heard in that manner. At this point it is all speculative but I think it is within the realm of possibility.
 
The question that I have asked, and it has drawn a blank look, is, What Happens When The Thinned Stand Reaches The Size And Habitat Of An Old Growth Stand? If the area is in matrix, will it be closed for logging and become LSR (Late Seral Reserve)? Is it then off limits? You might ask that question and see if you can get a straight answer out of the collaborators.
 
Seems to me that a lot of things are cyclic. 100 years ago, no consideration whatsoever was given regarding conservation of resources, and parks and the like were aesthetic creations. Sometime mid-century, the conservation movement took hold, and by the early 70's had built enough momentum to change public opinions regarding land management. I recently read the proceedings from a convention in the mid-70's where the focus was "NEPA is sure a pain in the ass". Those folks surely didn't see the 90's coming. Now, the balance is tipped in favor of environment over industry, at least as far as the public is concerned. NIMBY represents a much larger backyard. It's my opinion that sooner or later it will simply get too expensive to do business this way, and the legal machine will die of malnutrition. In the meantime, policies we set now will be law later. It's in everybody's best interest to make sure that those laws work. When it comes our turn again, we need to be ready to do it right. Air and water ARE important -- that's not just hippie rhetoric. There are plenty of mistakes to be learned from. It would be a shame to repeat them.
 
The question that I have asked, and it has drawn a blank look, is, What Happens When The Thinned Stand Reaches The Size And Habitat Of An Old Growth Stand? If the area is in matrix, will it be closed for logging and become LSR (Late Seral Reserve)? Is it then off limits? You might ask that question and see if you can get a straight answer out of the collaborators.

Well, Sierra was/is a "collaborator" on the Malheur Damon Wildland Urban Interface Project south of John Day, E.OR near Seneca/Bear Valley. After collaborating they (the club) filed 56 pages of objections with the USFS. Buried in their objections is a one-liner that says the club is opposed to any logging in OG. period.

(not sure exactly the difference between Late Seral Reserve and Late Successional Reserve, Designated Old Growth and Replacement Old Growth. Insight into this would be appreciated - in simple terms if possible).

Couple of USFS links
By Region/Year/Project:
USFS ObjectionsUSFS Appeals
 
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What I took from the article is it is a fight over scraps. Target harvest is down from 120 million feet to 8 million feet and the FS is going to compromise away part of that to appease the enviros. By the time the sales come up they'll be lucky to get half of their target harvest.
The rest of the trees will get bigger until they are all considered old growth and then all harvest will stop. Next step will be to make it into a park or maybe Natural Area Preserve. Can't have mushroom pickers or berry pickers disturbing the ecosystem.

Sorry Madhatter, I hope you are right but it looks to me like a downhill slope all the way to the bottom.
 
I believe that endgame can be found in UN Agenda 21. The enviro wackos are just pawns in the process. Here in Virginia logging is not yet a beaucratic problem at least on private land but the current issue is Engineered septic systems which will be regulated away by the end of 2012.
 

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