Power outage for 6 1/2 hours

[bore_pig]

As a sparky...you should know better....NEVER BACK FEED!!!!

As a sparky, I know how to do it with no risk to the tired lineman! More likely the scenario, you forget to open the main breaker to your house. Power Co restores your service. Guess what? Your generator is not in sync. Your generator being toast will likely be the least of your problems. Potential for a panel explosion!

I am not recommending a do it yourself backfeed setup. However, I realize that I will not be able to talk everyone out of doing it. So I will again say, Only backfeed with a homemade setup when absolutely necessary! And only if you understand what you are doing, how electricity works, and what could happen if something goes wrong.

 

[bore_pig]

You let your wife and child into your panel to do wiring? Mine, no. Your setup is ideal. Not everyone has it. Some people need power now and will do what needs to be done. That's who my advice is for. Otherwise, call a sparky.

 

[cord arrow]

You let your wife and child into your panel to do wiring?

WHAT???

They flip a switch and play guitar hero...

Well...they turn a key and flip a switch....

 

[bore_pig]

Common sense...I concur. Does everyone have it?

Your adolescent son who's watched you do this before?

Your panicking wife who's worried about the food...or the neighbor she calls to help her?

I can not be responsible for the actions of others...therefor I will idiot proof my rig as much as possible.

Power goes out here a lot...each family member takes a turn with the switch and the generator...

I'm very comfortable that everyone knows what they're doing...and can have all the power they need even if I'm golfing in Myrtle Beach...

You make it sound like anyone in the family would just go into the panel. With most families, no.

And by the way, is the fancy 6-way plug on the left your handiwork too! lol The wiring you did in the panel on the right looks very professional. What are you semi-retired from?

 

[cord arrow]

Your generator being toast will likely be the least of your problems. Potential for a panel explosion!

Have you ever done a transfer switch install complete? You do understand what a transfer switch does, correct???

There is no possibility of a genny meltdown or panel explosion...

I'm calling BS on you...sparky.

 

[bore_pig]

Backfeed a house with a 5000w generator. Main breaker still closed in. Restore power from the utility. You explain what will happen.

 

[jetskiman]

stupid question if you are back feeding and only remove the "hot wires" and not the nuteral could you not still get a surge back to the genset when the power company turns the power back on or still send a small amount of voltage back through the powerline with an ac circut?

 

[jetskiman]

As a sparky...you should know better....NEVER BACK FEED!!!!

Some tired lineman who's been working 20 hours straight to restore your power forgets to hang his meter on a line...you kill him.

Double ended cords are dangerous and illegal.

Do it right, fellas'. Got this entire rig...wires, box, breakers for less than $500. Did my own work...

how this any safer I do not see an intelock in that picture

 

[bore_pig]

Neutral is tied to your ground rod, water main, ground ring, etc. Also grounded at the transformer feeding your house. Any worries about the neutral could be nullified by pulling the meter. But, the average homeowner shouldn't really do that.

 

[bore_pig]

how this any safer I do not see an intelock in that picture

I am assuming a failsafe (anti-backfeed) breaker is feeding the panel to the right. I think the panel to the right must be his critical loads.

 

[jetskiman]

I am assuming a failsafe (anti-backfeed) breaker is feeding the panel to the right. I think the panel to the right must be his critical loads.

I see the "interlock" now the top left is the feed from power company and the one below that is from generator and if you look close you can see a little metal thing that flips opposite the other

 

[jetskiman]

Neutral is tied to your ground rod, water main, ground ring, etc. Also grounded at the transformer feeding your house. Any worries about the neutral could be nullified by pulling the meter. But, the average homeowner shouldn't really do that.

That makes sense.

I used to work with very high voltage (50,000 watt tv transmitter 1950 model RCA 1.114kv at the colector) so I have seen electricity do strange things especally when utility power has just been restored that surge is worse on equipmnet than when the power goes out.

 

[John D]

Labman,thank you for the link to the disconnects. Only thing is the simple bracket setup costs as much as a true generator panel once you buy the end plug for $200.I have wired in 5K gen panels for my family that you can get on sale for 200-300 tops,and you get watt meters on most of them to help you balance the gen loads for the average homeowner,it is great,as they would not know how to use an amp clamp or balance the panel otherwise safely. I do like the disconnect/backfeed better for my purposes,I like having power to everything,and shutting down what i want,so my little 10K can run my whole house ex dryer,A/C and welder. BTW i ran my house for 4 days on a 4400 watt Honda 8hp Chicago Pnematic long run generator after hurricane floyd.My well pump is 3/4 hp,and as long as I didnt have any other big loads on it started and ran it easily for 4 days.Everyone was at my house taking showers,as no one else had power or enough fuel to run there gens more than a day or 2 if they even had one.

 

[cord arrow]

If you will notice the sub-panel…the one on the right in the photo…
At the top right you will see a 100 amp breaker. It is fed with 3 awg (2 wouldn’t be too much) through the pvc loop you see below the panels.
This breaker controls all power going to the sub-panel…ie…if this breaker is not made (turned on), there is no power getting to the sub-panel, short of an act of God (lightening strike perhaps).

Now, below that you will notice a 60 amp breaker…this is the breaker that will power the sub-panel with generator power once it is made. Closer inspection will reveal that it is “tied” to the 100 amp breaker from the house buss via a “rocker switch”. That is, when one is off the other is on…and vice versa.

When the 100 amp breaker is on…everything is normal. All of the circuits you’ve moved to the sub-panel to provide power to vital circuits when the power goes out…all work perfectly normal. After all, they’re being powered by the house buss at this point.

Uh-oh….powers out! Well, we fire up the generator, and plug that bad boy into the wall outlet we installed… that feeds (has a big wire that goes into) the sub-panel, through that 60 amp breaker.

Now, we need to go make the switch! When we flip the main 100 amp breaker off…or the 60 amp generator breaker on…the other one moves by itself via the aforementioned rocker switch! How cool! No mistakes.

Now, given that there is a direct disconnect between the sub-panel and the house panel (the 100 amp breaker was turned OFF when we made the switch)…there is no way current can feed between these two…other than the aforementioned act of God.

In my case, I moved the well pump, furnace, hot water tank and a few house circuits to the sub-panel…I didn’t include the AC, electric stove or clothes dryer.

You’ll notice in the photo…I had to add a box to complete some of the circuits, the yellow wires in the photo.

This install is up to code…I had it inspected for insurance requirements…but…I did cheat one 110 feed through the pvc that houses the 3 awg…not allowed…but he let me slide. I knew, but figured I did such a fine job on everything else…

I have can lights in the kitchen controlled by only one switch….we turn this switch on when the power goes out, then we know when it comes back on. Again…COMPLETELY SEPARATE CIRCUITS! The generator and the house power can work in unison forever. They are separate entities.

I post this because this is fairly easy to do…and to clear up any misunderstanding surrounding a transfer switch.

 

[skuter]

Reliance Controls has full panels with this feature built in. I had my panel replace last year due to corrosion problems. I went with the Reliance Panel. It works great.
http://www.reliancecontrols.com/ProductDetail.aspx?TTV2003D

 

[DonB]

Power outages don't bother me too much.

 

[cord arrow]

he let me slide.

Coupla' quick notes...inspector questioned my 100 amp breaker feed..well, I had one.

Also, the Pushmatic panel has tapped holes in the bottom of the feed bars..I used these to connect the 3 awg. He would have rather seen a breaker feeding the sub-panel breaker, but no big deal....

Had me take apart and glue the pvc...kinda' figured on this.

Complained a little about my use of 20 amp breakers for everything (got a fleabay deal)...told him I'd take care of it.

Also...the lockout (rocker switch) is the weak link...use your thumb and forefinger to switch both breakers at the same time...help it a little...

 

[John D]

Complained a little about my use of 20 amp breakers for everything (got a fleabay deal)...told him I'd take care of it.

Also...the lockout (rocker switch) is the weak link...use your thumb and forefinger to switch both breakers at the same time...help it a little...

20 amp breakers on everything? I hope you had AWG 12 on everything as well. then theres all the residential switches only rated to 15 amps. I cant believe he passed you with that.

 

[cord arrow]

Hey, I fixed it...maybe he figured I was good for my word.

Remember...this was after a major ice storm that shut this area down for weeks...

Mine was probably the best he'd seen.

 

[cord arrow]

Gee John....what else didn't you like......