Ppe

[Climb020]

After working for a few companies I am finding it is very hard to make guys, mainly younger guys, to wear the appropriate PPE. I recently started at a new company and they teach all the ANSI standards and expect everyone to follow. But as I am sure many know the minute the bigger bosses are gone people just do what they want. They think they don't need it cause you know they are invisible.

So what ways to do you owners and crew foreman get your guys to wear PPE? It happens to be a big pet peeve of mine and am hoping to find some sort of resolution. Oh and as for PPE I mean hard hat, eye protection, hearing protection and chaps. The one handed chainsaw use and one tie in point saw use is for another day.

 

[jonseredbred]

being the owner and being on the job allows me to be in better control, I acyually see it the other way, the old dogs set in thier ways not wanting to wear hard hats. We honestly only wear the chaps doing clearing work when you are on your hands and knee's all day. I know the comments will fly, but its the truth.

 

[Jumper]

Ya forgot safety boots as well-sneakers don't cut it on the ground.

How about the threat of being fired on the spot the next time they don't wear it. Kids behave like this because they believe they are going to get away with it.

Heck it is your reputation on the line, not to mention the company's when they get injured more serverly than would have been the case had the applicable OSH regs, not to mention common sense been enforced.

IMHO this appears to be a larger problem in the USA than elsewhere, something about freedom of the individual. Here I have no problems finking on workers I see that work for other companies not using the correct PPE-I pay for their mistakes through my health care premiums and taxes, which Lord knows are high enough already.

 

[squisher]

I know here in BC(canada) if you don't follow the rules the company can get some hefty fines from WCB which I think helps to get the message across but I still saw it lots in the bush fools putting themselves at risk by not using the proper ppe.
I only have one person working for me but I would like to hear how some of the bigger outfits handle this as I hope to expand one day. Zero tolerance is my policy fire the liability. If you've specifically asked someone to do something ie wear ppe and they don't what else aren't they going to do like following safe work practices.
Our jobs are dangerous and I can't beleive that people don't use every possible option to ensure their safety. Oh that's to uncomfortable or hot or heavy or whatever, wait until you cut yourself or poke your eye out or can't hear your grandchildren.
To those that aren't using ppe wake-up before it's to late.:angry2:

I don't mean to get all fired-up but if I've offended you ask yourself why?

 

[beowulf343]

Unfortunately, many people don't realize how important ppe is until they see what happens without it. And I'm sad to say it but I was the same way-was forced to wear a hard hat but everything else I couldn't care less about. However after setting a running saw on my leg, I realized the value of chaps. After spending time in front of the truck mirror using a dollar bill to get a piece of sawdust out of my eye, I realized that glasses are not so bad. After having the end of a bull rope snap out of a tree at a funny angle and tear a chunk off the top of my ear, I realized earmuffs could save alot of pain. Nowdays, I'm a ppe freak. But still alot of guys don't care even after seeing scars. I'm with jumper, if they don't want to wear ppe after being told once or twice, time to fire them.

 

[Jumper]

Zero tolerance is my policy fire the liability. If you've specifically asked someone to do something ie wear ppe and they don't what else aren't they going to do like following safe work practices.
QUOTE]

Good point. I was a health and safety officer both in the military and since, and I have heard every excuse in the book why PPE was not worn. Too hot, doesn't fit, too cold, too uncomfortable, can see with it on etc etc etc. Several of my 40 something friends sport dual digital hearing aids because they are so deaf. Some of the worst violators were bosses-the safety rules were for the masses not ME comes across as a real a**hole comment. I at the least avoided a very severe bump on the head but for my hard hat a few years back.
There is such a variety of PPE out there now-chaps too hot or cumbersome in a tree-buy a pair of summer weight chain saw pants. Steel toes cramp your toes-look for a pair that do not, every toe box is not created the same, steel toes too cold-they now make them out of composite materials. Hard hat too hot-they now make vented models. ETC
I saw someworkers chipping at the side of Hwy 62 last year-no head protection, no glasses, and I assume no ear plugs as well-I emailed the company President and he was very happy to hear from me. Plus when the fly by night competition gets hassled on something legit, great. Like I said, my workmans comp, and health care costs are in a position to become even more expensive due to the uncaring actions of a select few.

 

[Climb020]

Squisher I work for a fairly large company that is throunghout the northeastern us. According to the employee handbook they have a 3 strikes and you are out rule unless it is a serious infraction. But I am sure when companies are short staffed and it is hard to find good help they look away a few times. I am gonna have to see how it goes. I talked to the boss that runs 2 states and if something isn't done or it isn't correct I would amagine I can always go hire up the ladder to complain.

I first started being a PPE freak for comps cause I knew that they made you wear it so I wanted to get us to it. Then at the comp I won chaps so I was all set. Now as soon as I get out the truck I put it on and walk the job. I am so use to it now I barely notice it. And with chaps I just leave them with the big saw so you get the 2 for 1 deal when you need to go cut something.

The company I use to work for imposed fines on the guys for not wearing it and then the money would be used for a happy hour where everyone got together for drinks at the end of the work day.

I find it quite funny though when it comes to climbing. Some guys think they are real good but as far as PPE and safe working procedures go they don't know a thing about. To me they looks like an over-sized monkey up the tree with a chainsaw.

 

[l2edneck]

After having the end of a bull rope snap out of a tree at a funny angle and tear a chunk off the top of my ear,

Haha had the same thing happen to me.Hurt like a mofo.

As far as PPE yall know ima night mare.I just chalk it up as me bein a dumba$$.My ole lady been tryin to get me to change some things for years.I now(since i found this site)am thinking for the first time in my 18 year career about gettin a hat and some muffs.Chaps prolly not.I never got used to a hard hat because i always had a prob keepin em on and chin starps drive me crazy.But since yall are teaching me sooooooo much ill prolly attempt it 1 more time.Right now im low on funds and got a saw down so its not gonna be tommorrow,but soon as i can ill start tryin some out.:bang:

 

[smokechase II]

PPE story

I'll call him by one of his nicknames.
Buttsweat listened patiently to the USFS tailgate safety session. He was new to this crew in Montana and wanted to make a good impression.
All the PPE items were covered for running a chain saw.
When the boss went out to check on Burplick, (another nickname), he had on logger boots, long full coverage chaps, leather gloves, long sleeve shirt, eye protection, ear protection and a hard hat.....

and nothing else......nothing I repeat nothing else.

Bellknap was left alone after that.

I realize that this is a serious PPE discussion. Just couldn't resist.

Suggestion:
Set up a couth fund.
Seriously, next time an employee forgets a safety item of any kind. Have them contribute to a fund that could pay for parties, charitable donations or gas to their next job.

 

[maxburton]

Great thread. I've been letting things go with PPE, with things being me and one other guy right now. I'm getting back on track, starting Monday. (That's the next day we work)

 

[Jumper]

One more thing about PPE-using it along with safe work practices produces a business like image to your customer. Show up wearing rotten old skateboard shoes, cut offs and an unwashed ratty old T shirt, and you look exactly like the hack you probably are.
A question of pride in one's work. This also applies to climbers I have worked with over the years-if you don't give a hoot about the safety of your own body, why would you care about me, our boss' equipment, let alone the trees. (Take "M"-helmet which be rarely wore was a fibre glass relic from the 1960s that would have shattered into a million pieces with a minor tap, boots that were cut to shreads with saws, never wore chainsaw pants, or ear plugs, glasses were little "John Lennon" models, smoked dope before climbing, PS same guy that spiked up the backside of a large ash in a very upscale neighbourhood in Ottawa, Rockcliffe Park, hoping no one would notice-well our boss "V" did next time I drove past there with him and he dropped into the clients to see how the job went, trying to scrounge up new biz. Then that put me on the spot for not finking at the time of the job as I was in charge. Last time I ever called spiking anything other than removals acceptable). Most recent boss wore a pair of chain saw pants with the crotch torn out of them showing his underwear/balls for almost a week. I think he got the hint when I offered to loan him an extra pair of chain saw pants -I mean how would you feel arriving at a job with a boss whose underwear pouch is visible?
Show up with clean serviceable clothing (this is a dirty biz afterall and you are going to get dirty) and wear the prescribed PPE and you immediately project an image that you look like a professional. Would you trust a financial planner that wore Hawaian shirts ratty old cut offs and flip flops?? A doctor?? I am not saying everyone has to be in three piece pin stripe suits here either.
I am amazed what people are allowed to wear in labouring positions-we had our roof redone this week and one guy had a huge tear in his pants knee-no problem as I am sure roofing is hard on your clothing-but that is how he showed up for work, So then he cut it off and went the entire day with one leg short, one long. (WTF?????) If I had been the boss I would have sent him up the street with $25 to buy a pair of jeans at Zellers, and deduct it from his next pay, or told him to go home and not come back until he had a pair of pants on that looked OK. You can buy a pair of brand new no name jeans on the sale rack here at Marks for $10-15 brand new, and T shirts in any colour under the sun are 3/$10. I am sure used clothing at Value Village is even less-they just had a sale for 50% off everthing in the store. I have worked with people I did not want to be in my truck with because they stunk so bad, and it was not from a hard day's work just completed. I carry an extra T shirt in my bag, so if I tear one up, I change, and in any event if it is really hot, I change anyways at lunch. Must be the military man in me-I may get dirty at work, but I always show up in clean clothing, and wear the PPE as instructed. It makes me feel like I know half of what I should, and certainly gives me a up on the dope smoking yokel dressed as described above I have to work with.

 

[clearance]

I wear all the ppe, all the time. I wear expensive boots (over $400 a pair), all the ppe isn't cheap but really worth it. Hardhat w/screen and muffs, fallers pants, hi-vis shirt. On res. or utility jobs I don't have to wear hi-vis unless I'm on the road. However, Jumper, I see nothing wrong with showing up with clothes that have small rips, oil stains, sap stains, as long as they are washed every time they are worn. I am not going to buy new t-shirts every weekend, when they get too bad they become a rag. The work truck I drive out to the bush is dirty, I keep the lights clean and check the oil all the time, not going to powerwash it every day, first things first. In other words, I look at the chainsaw a new guy has, it tells you more than the clothes he wears, if it is razor sharp and the air filter is clean, to me that is better than a clean cut well dressed guy with a dull saw.

 

[Jumper]

However, Jumper, I see nothing wrong with showing up with clothes that have small rips, oil stains, sap stains, as long as they are washed every time they are worn. .

I am in agreement with you here-maybe I overstated my case earlier(ie "Show up with clean serviceable clothing" ). My orange T shirts are stained with tree sap beyond being capable of removal, my summer saw pants have patches. The important part is they are clean. Small rips OK too ie one inch, but not the whole leg of a pair of pants in shreads as above.

You and I got our boots the same place and no they are not cheap, but worth the bucks if you have a foot problem as I do.

Perhaps one other point-you do not have to project an image to sell a product as many residential arborists do. If I am wrong plse correct my perception of what you do clearance. And I don't think a "clean" work truck was ever created anywhere-I cleaned my own this spring, as well as the company one and they both look like crap right now.

 

[TackleTree]

Hit them where it hurts, not in the nutz, but in the wallet. Use this a long with the 3 strikes and your out. Make sure you have all this in writing before you hire new employees ( fine list) and with current employees have them sign something so they arre aware of this. When you have your tailgate safety meetings about PPE ( or any other) take a group picture, have a sign in sheet and maybe a short 10 question quiz at the end to test knowledge. That way when it comes time to take corrective actions you have everything documented. For instance when an employee is upset about the fine and pay deduction or if god forbid an accident occurs you will have your butt covered. All of this will ensure the crew how serious you are about safety. Just enforce it always and no exceptions. If you dont want to fire a good employee because of this then just suspend him for a few days or weeks. Depending on the seriousness of the infraction. As the boss you are ultimately responsible for this and when something happens it will come right back to you. As far as enforcing when not on sight, you must have a good foreman or group leader who also follows safety rules you set forth. He must enforce as if it were you. If they cant then they have to be held rresponsible so fine the worker who violates these rules and fine the job foreman as well. Hope this helps.

 

[OTG BOSTON]

Good Thread!!!!

My first boss would fire people right on the spot for not wearing PPE. This is a VERY effective way to make EVERYONE wear it.

Now that I have crews of my own and they are Union Employees, I wish I could fire them for not wearing chaps etc. I have the same prob as mentioned above mostly old timers who "have been doing this longer than I have been alive" Etc,Etc,Etc

Everyone wears their hardhats, eye protection, and boots and gloves, its the ear protection that they refuse. I figure its their loss (literally)

My first boss had a saying that he closed every safety meeting with, first he'd ask if everyones PPE was in working order then he would say "look professional, act professional, be professional, because you ARE professional !!!


sometimes I really miss that old coot

 

[Jumper]

Yes their loss-as previously stated I have friends in their mid 40s who wear double digital hearing aids. In the interests of covering your a s s and that of your employer you need to start documenting their non compliance, with info copies to the union, most of which in my opinion are pretty supportive when it comes to adhering to PPE regs for their rank and file.

 

[OTG BOSTON]

Yes their loss-as previosly stated I have friends in their mid 40s who wear double digital hearing aids. In the interests of covering your a s s and that of your employer you need to start documenting their non compliance, with info copies to the union, most of which in my opinion are pretty supportive when it comes to adhering to PPE regs for their rank and file.

I'm really good at CYOA. Keep in mind I'm operating in the City Of BOSTON (normal rules do not apply)

 

[Jumper]

Certainly not as far as driving a vehicle goes-most aggressive drivers I ever have experienced in the US, though Montreal takes the cake to date LOL.

 

[Climb020]

What bothers me the most about the PPE issue is this. If the employee does not take there own health and safety into concideration how can I expect them to take my safety into concideration. It is hard to rely on a ground guy like this cause unfortunately as it may be the people on the ground have just as much control over your live as you do.

Also does anyone in the US know what the imposed fines are for not wearing the appropiate PPE. I hurd that there is safety guys that go around imposing fines on tree services as well as the workers that don't follow the rules. Please let me know if I am correct on this.

 

[Jumper]

Not sure what fines are in the states but people up here who have not demonstrated "due diligence" especially when the kaka hits the fan have been heavily fined. I know of one instance where a fall hazard was not properly designated, nor were the workers wearing fall arrest gear, or for that matter trained to use it, someone died and the company as I recall got hit with a $50000 fine.

Not wearing a hard hat on a construction site here some years ago was a $125 fine for the worker, not sure what the company got but you can bet it was even more when I saw the Labour Ministry Gestapo swoop in on a site 10 Sep 2001 and "cleaned house".