Problems with Canola as bar oil

[Engineeringnerd]

O.K., I couldn't sleep without trying this stuff, and I was pretty pleased with the results. Most importantly it got me out of a jam in the garden! I posted a thread "Gardening with 372xp and Canola" on the chainsaw forum.

 

[Schultzz]

Poison?

Now that our oil is enviormentally friendly - lets go kill some trees.

Ha Ha - Great point. Years ago apple orchard owners used arsenic to control pests. Imagine all that poison dripping off the leaves and getting into the soil.
No one complained, no one died, no one got sick, no wildlife was affected, life went on, and it will even if you continue to use petrol lubricants for your saws. Be more concerned for the 2 cycle engines polluting the air! Buy a clean burning saw. And worry about something more realistic. :deadhorse:

 

[Bowtie]

I will be using stihl oil, thank you.

 

[Gologit]

I can't count the number of times I've seen deer come into a newly cut-over area and graze. I have never seen a deer die from ingesting anything in the cutting area. The fallers use regular bar oil.

 

[andrethegiant70]

No, I wouldn't think that you'd see a deer keel over from being near conventional bar oil. We didn't see people falling like flies in the 70s but they still understood that spreading poisons (lead) into the atmosphere was taking its toll on human health.

I'm remembering another fairly incendiary thread in which someone doubted global warming because "it was damn cold at his house." Whatever you think think about global warming, that is just a GOOFY thing to say.

It's not really about whether using conventional bar oil is going to croak a bunch of plants and animals in the woods. I doubt we'll ever get any real evidence one way or the other. Its more about coming to grips with your own personal priorities and making good decisions based on your value system.

It sounds like some guys (myself included) have decided that flinging petro chemicals in the woods is inconsistent with the way they are trying to conduct themselves. That seems ok to me. We probably don't sling enough conventional bar oil to do much damage. I feel bad enough about the 2-stroke smoke.... I'm hoping the veggie oil thing represents some atonement.

 

[Schultzz]

Mr. Anonymous was right.

Great to hear someone with an open mind! Glad it worked for you. Storage-wise, I've left a saw three weeks so far with unused canola, no problems. Don't know the outer limits, but it does store just fine for a while.



Shultzz, your signiture seems appropriate to yourself here! Just because a lot have people have used a lot of poisons doen't mean it didn't hurt anyone. Everything adds up. No one is telling you what to use, but why are you and some others so afraid to see anyone doing something positive?:monkey:





Brilliant argumant. Of course a deer is a large animal and no more likely to die instantly from a little bar oil than you are. Frogs, lizards, small birds, etc. are not so lucky. But you can put bar oil on your french fries if you want to.

Want to do something positive? Try using Spell Check.

 

[Jack2007]

Want to do something positive? Try using Spell Check.

you got me!:notrolls2:

But I'm still going to use canola bar oil, and it makes me very happy to do so.

No, I wouldn't think that you'd see a deer keel over from being near conventional bar oil. We didn't see people falling like flies in the 70s but they still understood that spreading poisons (lead) into the atmosphere was taking its toll on human health.

I'm remembering another fairly incendiary thread in which someone doubted global warming because "it was damn cold at his house." Whatever you think think about global warming, that is just a GOOFY thing to say.

It's not really about whether using conventional bar oil is going to croak a bunch of plants and animals in the woods. I doubt we'll ever get any real evidence one way or the other. Its more about coming to grips with your own personal priorities and making good decisions based on your value system.

It sounds like some guys (myself included) have decided that flinging petro chemicals in the woods is inconsistent with the way thery're trying to conduct themselves. That seems ok to me. We probably don't sling enough conventional bar to do much damage. I feel bad enough about the 2-stroke smoke.... I'm hoping the veggie oil thing represents some atonement.

You said it better than I did.

 

[SRT-Tech]

Umm......we're talking about environmental friendliness. If health effects were the cause for making the switch, we ALL should have switched a long time ago. Look at the incidence of lung & skin cancers among airline & car mechanics as a result of both the skin & respiratory exposure to benzene, MTBE, as well as the "natural" carcinogens present in any and ALL petroleum products, as well as its exhaust. I'm no perfect angel; I wear an organic respirator when milling, but not when I'm bucking logs. as far as everything being bio-friendly, thank god; we should have some trees to cut & mill left.
As far as the gumminess argument; all you gotta do is run a tank of regular oil through the saw before you put it up for the season.



Dude, this may be beating a dead horse, but are you using some kind of fancy cooking oil? You paid $65/5L? ROFL!!!!!! No wonder you're bitter and won't switch. No offense man. Sheesh. Here, the very cheapest that a gallon, not quart of bar oil goes for, is $6 a gallon for the cheap off-brand stuff. Redmax, husky, or stihl is $7-9/gal. I got the cheapest canola I could; I don't need it to have a flash point 10deg. higher than the next best or have superior taste. It all smells better than petro.

nope...plain ol cheap canola frying oil in a plastic pail. Only place i could find it in that size was a wholesale food warehouse . yea i was a little peeeved at the pricing..

no point buying it in the grocery store, i would hgave to fill the shopping cart with dozens of 1 liter or 4 liter bottles, just to get what i needed for the week.

 

[Engineeringnerd]

I saw four distinct changes using the Canola.

1. The chain seemed to turn easier on the bar when turning the chain by hand. I also noticed that the "free spin" after a cut was longer - not necessarily a good thing, but an indication of less friction.\

2. I used more oil (as many others have mentioned). With the oil set on max on my 372XP, the oil sump was 90 % empty when the gas ran out. Usually it's about 60 - 70% empty. I checked the chain on several occasions during milling and there seemed to be a good layer of oil between the chain and the bar.

3. The saw was a lot cleaner and easier to clean at the end of the day. A few hits with the whisk broom, and she was ready to go. Usually I spend about 20 minutes with a screwdriver and tooth pick cleaning out crevices.

4. This one was really unexpected, the chains ground differently on my MAXX grinder. Grinding seemed smoother, the stone didn't "bite" into the chain and the chain seem less prone to bluing. I think part of the advantage is that the chain wasn't as gunked up as with traditional bar oil, so it also was cleaner going into the grinder. I think traditional oil tends to coat onto the wheel if you don't clean your chains thoroughly (I don't).

I don't know what potential negatives there might be with long time use or storage, but there are some advantages to Canola.

Any reason why Canola has gained favor, and not peanut oil, soybean oil....?

 

[B_Turner]

A good seat of the pants test to see how fast oils crosslink is to soak either a paper towel or even pieces of paper bag in the oil and leave out in the open to dry. Some finishes/oils will start to crosslink and dry nearly immediately while some will not dry for many weeks or ever, altlhough they will go rancid.

It might be an interesting comparison to do that with a range of vegetable oils, as well commercial bio bar oil. It would give some idea of how well straight canola oil can sit without solidifying in the saw. Not a perfect test of course as conditions will be different in a "closed" tank, but the general results should apply.

I have done this with a number of oils and finishes in the past as a side effect of using them for wood finishing. With woodworking and vege oils, we are usually seeking oils that set up quicker, like walnut oil, while most cooking type oils never really "dry" and thus are not really suitable for wood finishes. The one exception is mineral oil, which is still a fairly common finish for wooden kitchen bowls and such even though it does not cure. No allergic reaction like some to walnuts, and although it never dries, the surface can be washed and then reoiled. Not my own preference, though.

If I think about it I may do some simple tests on straight canola and commercial bio to compare how long it takes the soaked cloth to get stiff. I assume they have added something to the canola to make it sit longer better, even in the presence of moisture which probably adds to the issues.

 

[bwalker]

A non metallic additive oil like bar and chain lube is relatively environmentally benign.

 

[Engineeringnerd]

I really didn't try this for it environmental reason, although I'd like to be responsible in this as in other areas. I was using the wood chips in my garden and didn't want to contaminate the vegetables we are growing, so canola seemed a better bet than petroleum based oils.

After using the canola, I was pretty intrigued by its performance. It really seemed to allow the chain to slide easier, albeit under light load when I'm turning it by hand. It wouldn't be hard to convince me that under heavy load the light weight canola may not provide as thick a film as standard bar oil, hence, leading to more wear. Others deny they see a difference.

I was really blown away by the ease of cleaning the saw. Night and day difference.

 

[royta]

Tree Machine has lots of good to say on the following thread. http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=25220 It's plenty obvious it wont the hurt the saws that are used all the time. However, I'm an occasional saw user. Canola oil would more than likely destroy a saw that is used as infrequently as mine. Sure, I could just run my last tank of the day with regular Stihl oil, but I've only used a couple tanks in the past 4 1/2 years. Pretty sad really, considering I started running a saw at 13 or 14, and our only source of heat was a woodstove. Now I'm married and have kids of my own, and can't wait to move to where it gets cold so I can go woodcutting again. I'm thinking of starting up again now though, and selling firewood to the city folk.