Professional Cabling in Large Trees

[treevet]

Did you use EHS strand, or just regular strand?
Are the galvanized grips EHS or just regular strand?
Is it possible to have a conflict between EHS strand and a non-EHS cable grip?

I don't do enough cabling to know the answers, so please don't presume that I am questioning your installation. I do know that the strands are either deformed from the manufacturer, or from unequal loading on the individual wires. That unequal loading is guaranteed to compromise the breaking strength of your installation.

Regarding cable clamps and ANSI standards: I suspect that standard only applies to "strand" wire rope, because "grips" don't exist for conventional wire rope "cables". Those MUST be cable clamped with either conventional clamps or with "swages". Swaging takes big hydralic equipment to do right, and I don't think too many guys want to put that stuff up in a tree.

I am not able to send links (would love to have someone pm me and tell me how to do it) but there is some very good info in the article that will answer many questions if you type in and search this:

Using Tree-Grip Dead-Ends with Common-Grade "Cable"

 

[JeffL]

That cracked limb, did you do a through-rod and nuts and washers, or a coarse thread rod only partially through the limb?

 

[pdqdl]

I am not able to send links (would love to have someone pm me and tell me how to do it) but there is some very good info in the article that will answer many questions if you type in and search this:

Using Tree-Grip Dead-Ends with Common-Grade "Cable"

Search google, it is the top reference.

[Note for posting links: ]
1. Right mouse click on the link in google, choose "copy link location"
2. Paste (shift-insert works well) into your message, as shown below.


http://www.isa-arbor.com/publications/arbNews/pdfs/Dec06-cc.pdf

 

[jomoco]

That cracked limb, did you do a through-rod and nuts and washers, or a coarse thread rod only partially through the limb?

Through rods with nuts and large washers, one that was 1/2 inch, and a second larger one at 5/8ths.

Look carefully at the 2 pics of the bulging 3/8ths ehs 7 strand cable in my post above, the lateral on the right is that cracked and cabled branch with the rods in it, look carefully and you can see the nuts and washers of the rods on top of that cracked lateral.

Treevet, my cable grips are manufactured by Preformed Products of Cleveland Ohio, and yes they are ehs. All my eyebolts are Chicago Drop Forged.

I've got some good vids of today's work, and will post them here in a few hours.

jomoco

 

[jomoco]

Today I replaced a big cable that was so far out of alignment it was a hazard, I'm sure it was a way out of alignment cable just like this that twisted the big leader off this torrey that triggered my being consulted to evaluate these trees a year ago.

Now that cable is so out of alignment it's shocking!

jomoco

 

[jomoco]

Now here's a shot of where that misaligned cable went.

Look closely and you'll see that the other eyebolt is also out of alignment in the opposite direction!

High wind must've twisted the sap out of those big leaders!

Vids of my replacement cable next.

jomoco

 

[treevet]

Treevet, my cable grips are manufactured by Preformed Products of Cleveland Ohio, and yes they are ehs. All my eyebolts are Chicago Drop Forged.


jomoco

The link mentioned prior to your post, an article by Mark Adams, details the history of preformed tree grip dead ends with the company that mfctrs. your parts Preformed Line Products, Cleveland Ohio, from its start after WWII to 1978 when they produced them at the request of Davey Tree. They were previously made for many different applications.

It mentions that the cable grip dead ends can be used with common grade and that when they are, they are stronger than the cable itself. It does not mention the strength relative to the EHS cable (strand) but I would venture a guess that the EHS may be stronger than the dead end. I will check further. At any rate.....

It makes little or no sense to use common grade when the EHS is so much stronger and the dead ends are stronger and a smaller, lighter, better application can be used.

In the history it mentions that from the beginning resistance was given from the industry as the installation of a well spliced cable end was considered a sign of professionalism. I personally can attest to that as I learned to cable in 1969.

 

[treevet]

In those pictures the eye should be backed to the stem. Besides being out of alignment, the exposed shaft has potential for failure by bending. That can happen when a person depends on the eyebolt to give the tension and they over estimate the revolutions it will take to get it. If you are not real good at it, better to set the eyes and then torque the cable with choker, come a long, cable grip.

 

[jomoco]

Vid of the bogusly aligned cable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XQKabnAOSI

Then placing the first alignment tube in position.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rltyx-UPUyE

And the completed new perfectly aligned 3/8 ehs seven strand cable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMrV1dPqE4Y

Note that I did not cable to the same leader the old cable was attached to, I went exactly 180 degrees opposite to the big leader going over the towers roof, about 40 feet away. I was very pleased with the result.

jomoco

 

[jomoco]

It sure is. If put under much stress I would have expected the bolt to be bent by now.

Oh it was bent alright Treeco, atleast an inch and a half out of true.

jomoco

 

[treevet]

You know, as we discuss professional cabling in trees and ANSI standards it may be interesting to consider that, although new systems and materials may not be in the standard (Cobra, Rigguy, etc.), neither are they scorned.

The reason for this is likely that they do not have the time nor the resources to research these products/systems and they, obviously cannot take, at their word alone, the research done by the provider or manufacturer.

It is just unfortunate for them that in this, a time of formulation of standards, they may be omitted or ostracized and still possibly be completely viable and reasonable in their offerings.

I was looking through a few old Sherrill catalogs for strength ratings on the dead ends they sell and was surprised to find next their product of "J Lags" a statement that read as following:

"Average holding capacity of J lags in solid green wood (based on 1936 study)".

1936 ?!?!? MAN...is that the last study done on materials. These things take time, money and manpower. Our guiding orgs. should be in the middle of these endeavors.

 

[jefflovstrom]

It must be really cold in Ohio and nothing on T.V. I can appreciate jomoco's posts and pics (when he works out that cam prob ). I kinda think that your critique could be best addressed in the form of a "New Thread".
Jeff Lovstrom

 

[jomoco]

It must be really cold in Ohio and nothing on T.V. I can appreciate jomoco's posts and pics (when he works out that cam prob ). I kinda think that your critique could be best addressed in the form of a "New Thread".
Jeff Lovstrom

POV1 wide angle baby!

My current helmet cam is killin me!

jomoco

 

[Ekka]

Lordy help the people chipping that tree in years to come!

Perhaps sell it to a scrap metal yard. :hmm3grin2orange:

IMO, overkill.

Needs lightning protection now, more wires than local exchange opcorn:

 

[treevet]

It must be really cold in Ohio and nothing on T.V. I can appreciate jomoco's posts and pics (when he works out that cam prob ). I kinda think that your critique could be best addressed in the form of a "New Thread".
Jeff Lovstrom

Pretty stupid post Jeff. This was not a critique, although I do not agree with all that Jomoco does. This is simply a dialogue on the aspects of "professional cabling in trees" and my input involved terminations. This, being a forum, involves posters (me, etc.) making comments on the topic (thread). I have a lot of experience and knowledge from cabling for 40 years and I enjoy exchanging opinions and hard facts. If this was not the case......then every post would be from Jomoco and any reply would be....yeah....your right.....good point...or way to go Jo....

If you were the thread police, then it probably would say "moderator" under your name. Engage your brain a little prior to talking (posting), you might learn something. (and I might be one of the ones to teach it to you).

 

[jefflovstrom]

Wow! I stand humbled and in awe of your beating on me for my opinion and I hope you can forgive me.
Jeff Lovstrom
( who am I, anyway)

 

[treevet]

Wow! I stand humbled and in awe of your beating on me for my opinion and I hope you can forgive me.
Jeff Lovstrom
( who am I, anyway)

apology accepted jeffy

 

[jomoco]

Did something somewhat unusual today in the big Torrey pine I'm cabling.

The board of directors that run these highrise luxury condos had received numerous complaints from both residents and guests about being shat upon while in the pool area by ocean birds perched in the very tree I'm working.

Now sea gulls are one thing, but pelicans and egrets? Sounded like a valid complaint to me.

In an effort to be responsive to the residents complaints, the chairman bought a good size mean looking plastic owl made in china of course, and presented it to me with a request that I place it on a specific limb that these larger birds liked, and the people below infringed upon rather rudely.

Luckily for me the favorite limb had a handy large branch over it for a retag.

And while I hate j lags with a passion for cabling purposes, two of the little 1/4 inch lags screwed into the top of the target branch were perfect to stuff the owl over securely and give the illusion of it being perched there on alert and looking west for any tasty sea birds coming into his tree.

Here's a bogus video of my chinese raptor installed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uAKLYOPOzs

jomoco

 

[jomoco]

Finished cabling the Torrey pines today, but something was bothering me about the northern Torrey, the largest of the two. It did not have the vibrant dark green needles like the southern Torrey did, nor seem as healthy as the southern tree.

I think I know what the problem is after a close look at the northern tree's base.

Check out this vid of the base and post what you think the problem I found is.

Watch it without the audio if you think you can figure out the problem yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbEWPfab-8Y

No cheating now!

jomoco

 

[tree MDS]

Looks like its time for the air spade??