Proper way to plant a tree ?

[treemandan]

Dan, can you read? I covered the exposed portion of the root ball with soil from my shop next door you moron! says it plain and simple and plain! lol. As far as not being able to run a tractor, well, lol.

Terribly sorry for missing the part about you dumping soil on those balls, I was still in awe about your not being familiar with planting aftre all these years. Its shameful, shame ,shame shame. Also the remark about the tractor was not geared to you knowing how to operate one but not thinking about it enought o have a good idea what you are digging about.
I don't know how much digging you have done but it is scary down there, be ready. And your'e right about one thing; I am a moron, thanks for noticing... but I really wasn't upset when you smeared my mower. I just thought" this guy don't know". Its OK. I am here to help, whether you want it or not! I love ya buddy, take care and next time? You know!

 

[tree MDS]

Terribly sorry for missing the part about you dumping soil on those balls, I was still in awe about your not being familiar with planting aftre all these years. Its shameful, shame ,shame shame. Also the remark about the tractor was not geared to you knowing how to operate one but not thinking about it enought o have a good idea what you are digging about.
I don't know how much digging you have done but it is scary down there, be ready. And your'e right about one thing; I am a moron, thanks for noticing... but I really wasn't upset when you smeared my mower. I just thought" this guy don't know". Its OK. I am here to help, whether you want it or not! I love ya buddy, take care and next time? You know!

Not on the root ball dan, up to and beyond!! But sinse I got ya here, just curious, do you have a grapple on that dingo? and if so do you use it to feed that model 90? lol.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I've seen enough roots grown around wire to believe in at least cutting in back. Picture how trees grow around wire fence and you will get a good picture.

The burlap is bad too, it is either synthetic, as mentioned above, or treated to resist decay. I've seen root growing into it and being deflected and beginning to encircle.

IMO the hype about coddling the root ball is hooey, look at how the trees get manhandled in the nursery and on and off the trucks. One really needs to dig into the ball to see if there are encircling roots in the ball and to get the basal flair to a proper planting hight. Some examination work should be done prior to purchase too. if the plant is too deep in the ball, the root loss percentage is not linier, but parabolic due to the hemispherical shape of the ball.

If it is in an open site, Im a big beleiver of getting the biggest ball one can handle, or paying up for the biggest spade. 2 inch stock with a 90 inch spade?

Nursery standards ask for 10 inches of ball for every caliper inch, IMO this is why many of the slower growing genus have a higher mortality 4 in caliper with a 40 inch ball?

 

[treemandan]

Not on the root ball dan, up to and beyond!! But sinse I got ya here, just curious, do you have a grapple on that dingo? and if so do you use it to feed that model 90? lol.

I should be so lucky to afford a grapple and I am not sure I need it. My forks are homemade and can lift a pretty long and thick log. I also can just use the dingo to get the chipper " in" real good. we cut off the brush and run it through and pick up the bigger stuff to bring to the chipper. It will lift a bunch of chippable logs over a fence so I can keep them long.
The forks attach to the plate on the machine via a 2 inch reciever. I can quickly attach other homemade devices to this reciever, sometimes I can't decide what to use, its like one of those Tonka Broncos where you could swap the tires. I hook my old snow blower to it now that it lost its drive chain. Its a nice thing to have on the job.Its quick, leaves little scars.
The machine can run a 2 foot auger, pulverizer, trencher, you name it. All right up there at the rental yard. what I would like to get is a tree spade for it but they are pricey. For spade work I have just that, a spade. Its the kind you use a hammer to pound it into the ground, get a net under the ball and lift with the dingo. I don't do big stuff but it is rather effecient on the small. I do 14 to 16 foot trees no problem. Its just the prep work that is hard.

 

[tree MDS]

Those things are actually pretty cool looking, I was looking at one at the vermeer dealer thinking, now this would be pretty cool actually I'll bet. For now the tractor is fine and does'nt leave marks if you know how to use it and don't go somewhere you should'nt. But you really should get a grapple, that way you wont get yer good toilet scrubbing hands all scratched up, lol. heh, heh, heh.

 

[Thillmaine]

root ball

Find your root flare,Cut the bottom 1/3 of the cage first as long as your rootball is solid.Dig your hole, Once you get it in the hole then cut the top 2/3 and remove as much burlap as possible.Much easier then fighting to cut the bottom.

 

[tree MDS]

Find your root flare,Cut the bottom 1/3 of the cage first as long as your rootball is solid.Dig your hole, Once you get it in the hole then cut the top 2/3 and remove as much burlap as possible.Much easier then fighting to cut the bottom.

Makes sense, thanks man. I'm wondering though does the tree need more water after you remove all that stuff? I mean, think about it, its kind of like a pot in alot of ways no?? Oh, and whats the easiest/best method to stake them? Are those dudkbill anchor things in Sherril cat worth it? are they easy to use? How often should I tell this guy to water these trees?

 

[osb_mail]

wires ,tags, rope, burlap anything remove it all .I the 11 years planting I have I dont think I have ever replaced a dead tree that did not have wires on it I used to do street tree replacements for a few months each year all dead ones had wire and burlap left in tact .I cant say for sure that is what killed them but they all had wires just something to think about ?

 

[tree MDS]

wires ,tags, rope, burlap anything remove it all .I the 11 years planting I have I dont think I have ever replaced a dead tree that did not have wires on it I used to do street tree replacements for a few months each year all dead ones had wire and burlap left in tact .I cant say for sure that is what killed them but they all had wires just something to think about ?

Thanks man, good to hear. This is what I originally thought but it just gets confusing as this thread proves if you look back. And then the nursery guy tells me this story about a guy that dug a huge hole, put in like compsoil, staked these trees, removed all that cage and burlap etc., trying to do his best-all the trees died. He said it never dried out and was quite a mess. He said it was like the trees "did'nt know what to do with all that". First thing I said was was it all clay? did'nt get an answer really we were both busy, but I got the feeling that he was'nt really into it all that much. But he also told me a story about how they were working for the state or something where they had to follow all the regs and those trees died. But as soon as the inspector or whatever left, they planted them old school and all (or majority) of those lived. And then a very successsful arborist with more exp. than me told me I'd do more damage trying to get the cage off than if I left it! See where my confusion is derived from?

 

[treemandan]

Find your root flare,Cut the bottom 1/3 of the cage first as long as your rootball is solid.Dig your hole, Once you get it in the hole then cut the top 2/3 and remove as much burlap as possible.Much easier then fighting to cut the bottom.

It is like flipping burgers actually, you just have to know when and how.

 

[treemandan]

Thanks man, good to hear. This is what I originally thought but it just gets confusing as this thread proves if you look back. And then the nursery guy tells me this story about a guy that dug a huge hole, put in like compsoil, staked these trees, removed all that cage and burlap etc., trying to do his best-all the trees died. He said it never dried out and was quite a mess. He said it was like the trees "did'nt know what to do with all that". First thing I said was was it all clay? did'nt get an answer really we were both busy, but I got the feeling that he was'nt really into it all that much. But he also told me a story about how they were working for the state or something where they had to follow all the regs and those trees died. But as soon as the inspector or whatever left, they planted them old school and all (or majority) of those lived. And then a very successsful arborist with more exp. than me told me I'd do more damage trying to get the cage off than if I left it! See where my confusion is derived from?

Yes I do! trial and error is what you/I do. When you think about what you need to do at each given instance you have a better idea of what you might need to compensate for and figure out how to do it. Some projects are done differently than others but you have to account for everything someway or another.

 

[Thillmaine]

Tree planting

rebar in three spots around the trunk, depending on caliper, but 3 should be fine for anything up to 6 inches. Take eigth inch wire and tie a clove hitch with it on the rebar about 6 inches down. Tie your half hitches like you usually would with the clove adn then take pliers and tighten the half hitches so they wont slack up. Pound the stake in the ground until the entire thing if below the ground, so yes 6 inches of wire will be buried, this helps with trip hazards. Use colored tape to flag the wire so people can see it. Take some straps, (basically a 6 inch strip of cloth with a rivet on each end) and then thread the wire though that tying multipole half hitches or just wrapping it around itself. Put the straps all at the same crotch is possible and leave the wire a bit loose, you want some movement to help stimulate anchoring roots. Take off after one year.Typically conifers dont need to be staked because of their shape,they are naturally blow over resistant. Wind travels much easier over the top of the sloping sides then through a stick with aball on top, is you think about the physics of it. Much lower center of gravity. Again this is typically, bigger trees sometimes can break all of these guidelines.
Leaving the rootball unscathed is not helping anything at all. If you disturb the roots then so be it, you may be able to break the transition zone by filling in some voids made by moving some of the ball around with native soil. Be careful planting in clay, no glazing of the soil with the back of the shovel, take it and rough up the edges of the hole if this happens, otherwise roots will stay within the original root ball, fat dumb and happy.

 

[Lumberjacked]

my $.02

I would definitely NOT take off the basket before you get the tree in the hole. Depending on what kind of soil is in the rootball would determine whether or not I would remove half or the entire wire basket once in the hole. The most important thing is the burlap. If burlap does not stay consistently moist after planting it will never decompose. I Remove as much as possible and "X" the rest of it with a razor blade to allow roots to escape.
When a nursery digs a 2.5" caliper tree they leave about 80% + of the fine nutrient absorbing roots when cut with the spade. I have seen this in pics as well as first hand and most field grown trees in B&B form only have a hand full of "decent" roots within the root ball. So we need to take every precaution not to disturb the rootball during transport and planting.
Pot grown tree are crap, with all those circling roots I would never give one to a customer.
Oh yeah...wire sucks too. I know it doesnt have any short term issues but honestly how many of the 100's of customers we plant trees for each year will actually take that wire off the following year? I make a loop with webbing for contact with the tree and secure it using wire.
And last...root collar...root collar....root collar.

 

[Journier]

I leave them on. Wrestling with the thing is going to more damage than good. They rust after a while. Say you were planting 100 ten footers with a crew or 10 guys and a backhoe. Are you going to cut them off and put the tree in the hole without the support. Case closed.

Ive pulled tree roots that still had the wire on it barely rusted after something like 25-30 years :/

Im not completely sold on pulling them off myself, but my last job made it a big deal to pull the burlap, and the wire off, unless the root ball was falling apart, then the root bag stayed on, but we still tried to cut as much of it as possible.

The method we used to taking off the wire, is we roll the tree or place the tree right next to the hole, leaned over on it side, cut the wire off from the base, so that once you drop it in the hole, the wire lifts right out usually, worked well for us.

 

[ropensaddle]

I am surprised nothing said about site. I always check soil structure,
and water holding capacity,infiltration rate and very important to dig
the hole properly. Then select the best stock getting ever harder to find,
and then undo the burlap and wire site prep is to me the most important
factors in tree planting. I don't have a lot of experiance in it though but
do have good experiance with healthy results.

 

[Themadd1]

I think the best practice is to remove as much burlap as you can. It takes time to decompose in the ground. Depth is key, I have seen a lot of landscapers use equipment to dig the hole, too deep, then put some soil back in the hole. The tree sinks over a few months and there you have a problem. A lot of companies who know what they are doing guarantee for two or three years. Even then the real effects dont show up for about five years or more when the roots are bound.

If you have to leave the basket but cut into the burlap as much as you can. This will allow the roots to escape and enter the native soil. Read up and you will find a lot of researched information on the web or even in a book.

Advice is just that, advice from personal experience. This is why we have extension services, universities, etc studying the effects of what we do and dont do in the field.

 

[osb_mail]

You guys sound like my old boss he that thought it better to leave them .He it made them more stable .He was a real tree man did not know the diffence between a pine and fir the guy is a joker if you plant trees that have a good size root ball or root system in the case bear root .You dont have worry about the tree falling over .Plant smaller stock if needed I always think the smaller the better.

 

[treemandan]

rebar in three spots around the trunk, depending on caliper, but 3 should be fine for anything up to 6 inches. Take eigth inch wire and tie a clove hitch with it on the rebar about 6 inches down. Tie your half hitches like you usually would with the clove adn then take pliers and tighten the half hitches so they wont slack up. Pound the stake in the ground until the entire thing if below the ground, so yes 6 inches of wire will be buried, this helps with trip hazards. Use colored tape to flag the wire so people can see it. Take some straps, (basically a 6 inch strip of cloth with a rivet on each end) and then thread the wire though that tying multipole half hitches or just wrapping it around itself. Put the straps all at the same crotch is possible and leave the wire a bit loose, you want some movement to help stimulate anchoring roots. Take off after one year.Typically conifers dont need to be staked because of their shape,they are naturally blow over resistant. Wind travels much easier over the top of the sloping sides then through a stick with aball on top, is you think about the physics of it. Much lower center of gravity. Again this is typically, bigger trees sometimes can break all of these guidelines.
Leaving the rootball unscathed is not helping anything at all. If you disturb the roots then so be it, you may be able to break the transition zone by filling in some voids made by moving some of the ball around with native soil. Be careful planting in clay, no glazing of the soil with the back of the shovel, take it and rough up the edges of the hole if this happens, otherwise roots will stay within the original root ball, fat dumb and happy.

Nice inexspensive staking techinique.

 

[treemandan]

You guys sound like my old boss he that thought it better to leave them .He it made them more stable .He was a real tree man did not know the diffence between a pine and fir the guy is a joker if you plant trees that have a good size root ball or root system in the case bear root .You dont have worry about the tree falling over .Plant smaller stock if needed I always think the smaller the better.

I like to work smaller stock too, but its not always what they want. There is a difference between a pine and fir? besides a few bucks I don't see it.( ha ha ha)

 

[treemandan]

I think the best practice is to remove as much burlap as you can. It takes time to decompose in the ground. Depth is key, I have seen a lot of landscapers use equipment to dig the hole, too deep, then put some soil back in the hole. The tree sinks over a few months and there you have a problem. A lot of companies who know what they are doing guarantee for two or three years. Even then the real effects dont show up for about five years or more when the roots are bound.

If you have to leave the basket but cut into the burlap as much as you can. This will allow the roots to escape and enter the native soil. Read up and you will find a lot of researched information on the web or even in a book.

Advice is just that, advice from personal experience. This is why we have extension services, universities, etc studying the effects of what we do and dont do in the field.

There is a pretty big, clean and profesional guy around here who only gauarantees for 4 months.
And with all the hoopla about fungi and mulch people are asking about that and want it treated before its used on their property. I tell them not to put so much on but 14 yards of black dyed is so pretty. makes you feel warm inside.